Article: 10801 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Trond Buland Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: ping Date: 12 Sep 1994 15:34:08 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 36 Message-ID: <351lcg$8g8@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 15:38:26 GMT-0100 Comments: To: FUTUREC@UAFSYSB.bitnet To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..113:12.08.94.13.33.04"@uib.no> On Mon, 12 Sep 1994, L.M.Orchard wrote: > On Mon, 12 Sep 1994, G|ran Damberg wrote: > > > ping > > > > pong. > > zzz... is it really happening this time? FutureCulture is dying? if not even the possible death of the list is enough to start anything new, i guess it'll all soon be over? no retelling of our common past this time, no new vitality being born from the stories told around the electronic campfire? i guess all the old ones, who could have told all those tales, are gone? well, ok, it's been some good years on FC. i've learned a lot from lurking here (too bad i haven't contributed much but some occasional noise), and FC has made me laugh, and cry, more than any other virtual community..... guess i'll lurk on for some time, watch it all dwindle away...... have a nice day! :-) tb <-------------------------------------------------> < Trond Buland > < e-mail: trond.buland@ifim.sintef.no > < phone:+47 73 59 25 65 home:+47 73 52 78 21 > <-------------------------------------------------> Article: 10802 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: aka bookish Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 12 Sep 1994 18:26:24 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 80 Message-ID: <351vfg$jhn@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: aka bookish NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 10:40:59 -0400 Comments: To: Future Culture To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409121334.JAA18550@falcon.bgsu.edu> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..005:12.08.94.16.26.12"@uib.no> it sure is quiet, isn't it trond... but, the funny thing is that it's quiet on a lot of the lists that i'm on right now. and on the less-quiet ones (except for a few technical lists where the same FAQs constantly recirculate) the norm seems to be conflict and irritability, something we've seen a bit over here in recent months. maybe it's the imminent death of the internet we've been hearing about for so long, finally making itself manifest. i'm almost kidding... you see, i've been thinking a great deal about what FC does these days, what purpose it serves, and for whom. when Cybermind started awhile back, it was fascinating to see how many folks identified themselves with FC - how many called FC 'home.' i know i feel that way. i suspect other 'old ones' do as well. i suspect too that for folks who remember the 'glory days' of andy and the Bubblemorph Manifesto and crowds on #leri and newtech discussions swamping all of our mailboxes, for those folks it has become perhaps less necessary that FC itself be constantly active - as long as it doesn't go away. most of the folks that have been around for more than a year are neck-deep in other projects on the net (and off.) an occasional 'trip home' is about all that there is time for. nexus, baymoo, voices, cybernews,wiw.org, entropymoo, tribe, thesisnet, the alt.cyberpunk faq - just a very short list of projects that FCers and ex-FCers are working on - and it doesn't include all the work, school, art, politics that we're all doing. probably the old timers have got just a little careless about maintaining the FC community. undoubtedly the pressures involved in that job have changed, probably increased as the time available decreased. and, face it, the last few months have been hard on a lot of us. the conflicts over list direction (the infamous gun, constitution, and conspiracy threads) have forced us to think hard about how open and inclusive FC could afford to be and still survive. they've forced us to think about 'ownership' and 'control' of the list. we've lost some innocence here, i think, which may not be a bad thing, but which is always hard. and we've lost some veterans in the process - folks like Erich and freeside, who are missed. and we lost Michael Current, and i suspect i'm not the only one still wrestling with a grief that is very hard to even explain. there is a lot of pain on the net right now. many of my net-friends seem to be hurting. i'm hurting, and i'm suffering severe writer's block at a time when i absolutely can't afford it. last i knew, rez was stranded a long way from austin with a broken car. you make it home, man? anybody heard whassup with andy since he tackled that car on his bike? anybody heard from my pal CZ since the wedding? there were big plans for a business, but i haven't heard a peep... you know, maybe one of the things that has happened here is that we've come to think about FC as if it was something more than the folks who subscribe. maybe we've been thinking that community somehow just happens and keeps happening. if you build a listserv, it will come. maybe what the silence is saying is that we need to tend our community a bit. how about this? maybe we could start again here by re-introducing ourselves, oldtimers and not-so-oldtimers alike. Erich's not here to honcho a personal-FAQ roundup, but maybe we can carry on anyway. i'll post something later today. and maybe, while we're at it, it's time to think once more about what we're up to here. how do we parse 'future culture.' it isn't clear, to me at least, just what 'the future' might be. and what is our relation to it? and what is our relation to other future-ist (and futurist) strands of enquiry. (do we stand on the last promontory of the centuries? celebrate the love of danger? ;) we played around with some of these sorts of issues in the short-lived Haraway thread, and returned briefly to them in the Electronic Disturbance discussion. perhaps those would be places to try to start again. anyway, i have ranted long enough - but hopefully in the good old FC style... love you all (and like my pal spud, i dare you to doubt it), -shawn/bookish Article: 10803 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "Gregory H. Ritter" Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: ping Date: 12 Sep 1994 19:30:49 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 82 Message-ID: <352389$lva@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 11:17:41 EDT Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.BITNET@VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: ; from "Trond Buland" at Sep 12, 94 3:38 pm Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..345:12.08.94.17.29.52"@uib.no> Trond said: > > is it really happening this time? FutureCulture is dying? > if not even the possible death of the list is enough to > start anything new, i guess it'll all soon be over? no > retelling of our common past this time, no new vitality being born > from the stories told around the electronic campfire? i guess all > the old ones, who could have told all those tales, are gone? > > well, ok, it's been some good years on FC. i've learned a lot from > lurking here (too bad i haven't contributed much but some occasional > noise), and FC has made me laugh, and cry, more than any other virtual > community..... > guess i'll lurk on for some time, watch it all dwindle away...... > have a nice day! :-) > > tb > > > <-------------------------------------------------> > < Trond Buland > > < e-mail: trond.buland@ifim.sintef.no > > < phone:+47 73 59 25 65 home:+47 73 52 78 21 > > <-------------------------------------------------> > Oh, fer crying out loud, get a grip. Why does it seem that so many FC members seems to be on the edge of their seat waiting for FC to "die"? And why, if they're so goddamn concerned about FC "dying," don't they post something more interesting than "Woe is me, FC is not the same as in the days of yore, blah blah fucking blah." *THAT* bores the tears out of me, far more so than the gun thread, conspiracy theories or what everybody's wearing today. Here's my take on it: things change, and people are scared of change. I have no sympathy for the list lurker who wants FC to be a particular kind of forum, but instead of doing anything to make it so, just pines for the way things used to be. I think there's a faction that would like to see FC "die" (their word, not mine) because it would confirm their opinion of the changes that have happened to the Net: "Gee, the Net was once a really cool place where all us cyberpunks got together to discuss cool tech stuff for the future, but now there's all these *normal* people on the Net talking about boring, non-tech sociocultural stuff. Pew!" If FC "died" then they could all throw up they're hands and say, "See, I was right, the Net has gone to the birds!" Well, news flash, friends: the Net and FC (like the rest of life) changes, morphs, and becomes something new as time passes. If you like what it becomes feel free to stay. If you don't like it do one of two things--a) take some actions yourself to change it like starting a discussion or posting some controversial matter or whatever or b) go away. But, for god's sake, quit your whining. It's very unbecoming. Greg Ritter eng3ghr@hibbs.vcu.edu P.S. The above is not intended to single out Trond, because there's plenty of others who also get lumped into my "Bitch and Moaner File." He just happened to be unlucky enough to post those sentiments today. Article: 10805 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Philippa E Holloway Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: ping Date: 12 Sep 1994 23:33:58 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 40 Message-ID: <352hg6$f5@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 13:07:02 -0400 Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.BITNET@PSUVM.PSU.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409121252.IAA24522@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> from "L.M.Orchard" at Sep 12, 94 08:48:20 am Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..285:12.08.94.21.33.34"@uib.no> T O D A Y' S M A I L F R O M F U T U R E C U L T U R E > > On Mon, 12 Sep 1994, G|ran Damberg wrote: > > > ping > > > > pong. > > zzz... > > -- > Dionnus Elektronn (aka Leslie Michael Orchard) > > "Don't sweat it, it's only ones and zeros." > C O M P A R E T O T O D A Y' S C Y B E R M I N D A C T I O N: >>Why do we chatter on and on? > (B) We are afraid to die. >>Why do we say the first thing that comes into our heads? >See above (B) (A). >>Why are we loners, isolated, marked by fear and desperation? >(C) Because we have to die. W H I C H E - L I S T I S D E A D ? ? ? ? LIVE from Ohio, Pip holloway.28@osu.edu Article: 10807 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Otto Karl Florian Diesenbacher Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: ping Date: 13 Sep 1994 00:53:40 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 25 Message-ID: <352m5k$298@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: diesenbacher@dsb835.edvz.sbg.ac.at NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 18:18:02 MEZ Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was diesenbacher@DSB835.EDVZ.SBG.AC.AT To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..830:12.08.94.22.53.24"@uib.no> Very funny!!! ha ha ha ha ha If you really need this kind of communication go to a bbs and make babble..... or has this become to a babble-mailing list? never mind =8-/ ---- Otto Karl Florian Diesenbacher ------------------------------------------- Schwanenstr. 7 e-mail: diesenbacher@edvz.sbg.ac.at A-5201 Seekirchen a. W Karantania, Brinta, Isca - BBS: OKFlo AUSTRIA - EUROPE -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.3 mQCPAi5qcZgAAAEEAMip603p5aumhcA8hJtxW6OAyEf/4Y00QLtj+JzRFCS3wcwP bu1io0jk6RrvnSM5gEpiN+TTrUvsnHj9MSR4c+sHQZybPrTYbZg12vdpRaRDBwR+ 5OvMSud5/n8kF9D9qsOOwYYp58AvoVSwNSER5mggGodN3x8KQCjt5+Y5G2zBABEB AAG0ME9LRmxvIERpZXNlbmJhY2hlciA8ZGllc2VuYmFjaGVyQGVkdnouc2JnLmFj LmF0Pg== =mt57 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Article: 10809 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!nac.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Alan Sondheim Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 13 Sep 1994 04:04:11 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 35 Message-ID: <3531ar$7ir@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 15:17:25 -0400 Comments: To: aka bookish Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409121828.AA25508@panix.com> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..534:13.08.94.02.03.57"@uib.no> Well, thinking about Shawn's post, I think that Michael's dying had a very real impact here - I 'm judging that as well by the fact that he was moderating an email list called Deleuze-Guattari, on the French philosophers who wrote Anti-Oedipus among other books, and although the list continues, traffic has been really slow. His presence was a close one, always replying (which I try, but not as well, to do on Cybermind), and making the list a home - I gather he was on the Net fifteen hours a day. And he did consider FC his own home. I spoke to his mother, by the way, about a week ago; she said that the she thinks he died of a heart attack. As you know, he was diabetic, etc. But he was in good spirits at the time. There was also Andy's disturbing so-long-you-guys post which didn't help FC - and then all the gun stuff, pro and con, which I get enough of on the street here. I would sign off, wait for things to quiet down, then sign on again. Ironically, I think FC is needed now more than ever, particularly with so many new people (I hate the word "newbies") signing on - the Net is going to change, with a lot of only semi-interested, semi-computer-literate people coming on board. How do we cope with this? And another question - is the Net overrated in the first place, at least in terms of demographics - it seems to be. A recent study indicated there are only 2-3 million real users total. And outside of university communities, there seem very very few - I know of almost no one on. One problem is that if a server charges either for email or Net-time, then it becomes a dial-up service instead of a site for discussion or inhabiting - you want to stay on as little as possible, perhaps do your ftp (if you even know what that is) and leave. As apart from the telephone, which has become a part of every-day life... What does anyone think? Alan Article: 10810 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: aka bookish Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: ping Date: 13 Sep 1994 04:22:48 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 69 Message-ID: <3532do$7s0@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: aka bookish NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 16:04:53 -0400 Comments: To: Future Culture To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409121825.OAA19997@falcon.bgsu.edu> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..123:13.08.94.02.22.41"@uib.no> /me takes a deep breath greg, greg, greg... relax, man. you've been 'round long enough that you don't get to talk about us 'old timers' that way. and i would have thought by now you would know the jokes. we go through it again and again - the whole 'death of FC' thang. sometimes, like this time, the low volume and lack of direction really seems troubling, particularly to those of us who have been around awhile. we care about FC and want it to be a good place to hang out for lots of folks. one of the things we have learned lately is that we don't know how to be absolutely inclusive, that maybe it's not even anything we want to be. things change, and often that's a damn good thing. things die, too. and it's something we are painfully aware of. something we do not want to happen to this non-place that has been so good for so many at various times. in the past, what has been best about FC has been the people, not the new toys we've talked about. of course, talking about new toys is fun too, and it's one of the things that this particular forum has been about. but there has also been lots of the sociocultural stuff here. to pretend that that was somehow imported with the recent political discussions is to remember FC's past very selectively. what i miss, and what i suspect others miss, is the vision that used to drive so much of the discussion, and the freedom to rant a bit among friends. we are all too quick to shut down discussion now. we learned the wrong lessons from the recent conflicts. and, finally, we have lost the kind of knowledge of one another that keeps a real community going (in or out of cyberspace). that loss of knowledge about who we are talking to was what drove me to suggest some new introductions. for instance, anyone who would talk about folks 'wanting FC to die' in the context of one of trond's posts should make the acquaintance of my old pal trond, who has contributed to some of my fave FC moments. there are lots of good folks here, 'old' and 'new.' that much is clear. shall we shout out a bit about ourselves? one more thing about change. there was a time when FC was the bleeding edge. i think i got here a little later than that. by the time i arrived things had already been destroyed and rebuilt twice. lots of things have happened since then. but FC is still being advertised as bleeding edge. so the list is bound to be torn between the demands made by folks who have been here, who know the history, and who have invested in *particular kinds* of change, and other demands that come from a desire to keep FC open to all. it's a consciousness of that tension which drives some of the concerns about FC's longevity, and that will lead some of us to run through the 'ping! is it dead yet?' gags. (these are the jokes, folks.) but it's also that consiousness that is likely to take FC somewhere other than wherever it happens to drift. as Alan said, FC - or at least the existence of places like it - is important. let's be smart, and kind to one another, as we work in this space. t'care all, -bookish/shawn wearing: plain white T, 501s, black & white chucks, green/brown/tan flannel, funny sidewhiskers and mustache, lots of long, curly hair. listening: air conditioner hum, Anti Poll Tax Trax, blackgirls, Accelerators. believing in: love (despite it all), friends (ditto), FC ('cause it matters). ########################################################################### # Shawn P. Wilbur aka bookish # American Culture Studies # # swilbur@andy.bgsu.edu # Bowling Green State University # ########################################################################### # "Can you imagine what The Futurists would have done with an Information # # Superhighway?" # # --Avant-Pop Manifesto # ########################################################################### Article: 10811 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Meng Weng Wong Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 13 Sep 1994 07:39:34 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 90 Message-ID: <353dum$art@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 17:41:14 -0400 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <9409121801.AA11605@orion.sas.upenn.edu> from "aka bookish" at Sep 12, 94 10:40:59 am Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..627:13.08.94.05.38.59"@uib.no> bookish pounds randomly on the keyboard and comes up with | | it was fascinating to see how many folks identified themselves with FC - | how many called FC 'home.' i know i feel that way. i suspect other 'old | ones' do as well. i suspect too that for folks who remember the 'glory | days' of andy and the Bubblemorph Manifesto and crowds on #leri and | newtech discussions swamping all of our mailboxes, for those folks it has | become perhaps less necessary that FC itself be constantly active - as | long as it doesn't go away. most of the folks that have been around for | more than a year are neck-deep in other projects on the net (and off.) this is entirely true for me. | and we've lost some veterans in the process - folks like Erich and | freeside, who are missed. *wave* this is kinda odd, I seem to be still receiving futurec if only because my mail filter keeps breaking ... um ... this was my first message, and in a way i'm glad i'm still subbed. think i'll hang around a while, glance at my GPA now and then, maybe not worry about it so much. | | anybody heard from my pal CZ since the wedding? there were big plans for | a business, but i haven't heard a peep... | BOGGLE. Uh, you're, like, kidding, right, I mean, we're not going off and getting married behind everybody's backs ... whoomp. | you know, maybe one of the things that has happened here is that we've | come to think about FC as if it was something more than the folks who | subscribe. maybe we've been thinking that community somehow just happens | and keeps happening. if you build a listserv, it will come. maybe what | the silence is saying is that we need to tend our community a bit. Yes, communities survive, it's the people, as long as the people are still around the memories tend to accrete, glorify themselves into something that never really was, but hell, here's to VT100. Everybody stand up who still remembers fc@nyx. (Nyx, BTW, just put out a set of computer trading cards ... gonna be worth a lot in future. End plug.) | maybe we could start again here by re-introducing ourselves, oldtimers | and not-so-oldtimers alike. Erich's not here to honcho a personal-FAQ | roundup, but maybe we can carry on anyway. i'll post something later today. update: now a junior at the university of pennsylvania. i'm an undeclared CSE (computer science engineering) major. i'm trying to put together an individualized major in Human Information Systems; it'd be an unholy cross between CS, Complex Systems, Communications, Social Psychology, History/Sociology of Science/Technology, Operations and Information Management, and god knows what else bubbles to the top of my brain. problem with Penn is everything's sort of neatly pigeonholed into different schools: either you're Engineering, or in the College of Arts and Sciences, or in the Wharton school of Business. Very little cross-fertilization. Not at all Third Wave. One man against the system, just watch me. | and maybe, while we're at it, it's time to think once more about what | we're up to here. how do we parse 'future culture.' this is an important question to me, because i'm teaching a class -- perhaps saying I'm leading a discussion group would be a little more appropriate -- and I'm putting together a bulkpack, a reading list of sorts for people to discuss the implications of communications and computer technologies on the future, society, the usual. you know what i mean. so anyways, george gilder gets read, mcluhan and toffler are classics, there's the occasional wired article, the occasional rant and rave from EFF and all them ... what are the most important books you've read about the future, that would be relevant to such a course? I usually hate this kind of thread (remember "what are you wearing now"?) so please respond only after serious consideraton, with a book summary if possible, critical review, that sort of thing. you can look at the bulkpack if you want, it's at http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~mengwong/netsurf/bulkpack/contents.html cheers, love, freeside Article: 10815 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Videoshamen Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: the spread of the net Date: 13 Sep 1994 17:04:37 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 37 Message-ID: <354f25$cuq@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 01:38:12 -0400 Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.bitnet@vm42.cso.uiuc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409130424.AAA19514@cais.cais.com> from "Alan Sondheim" at Sep 12, 94 03:17:25 pm Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..974:13.08.94.15.04.31"@uib.no> 'Alan Sondheim' made it known. > Ironically, I think FC is needed now more than ever, particularly with so > many new people (I hate the word "newbies") signing on - the Net is going > to change, with a lot of only semi-interested, semi-computer-literate > people coming on board. How do we cope with this? And another question - > is the Net overrated in the first place, at least in terms of > demographics - it seems to be. A recent study indicated there are only > 2-3 million real users total. And outside of university communities, > there seem very very few - I know of almost no one on. One problem is > that if a server charges either for email or Net-time, then it becomes a > dial-up service instead of a site for discussion or inhabiting - you want > to stay on as little as possible, perhaps do your ftp (if you even know > what that is) and leave. As apart from the telephone, which has become a > part of every-day life... > What does anyone think? Actaully I think that this is the year that the net broke out into popular culture. Before this year the concept of e_mail as a means of communicating outside shcool or the office was alien. Now national and local news agencies have internet addresses, giving out your e_mail address doen't get you strange looks, and every seems to know what the internet is. I don't think that places that charge for dial up access by the hour will be able to survive for very long. As the net gets easier to use, I mean as it becomes more socially accptable to understand how the net works, people will be less and less willing to pay outrageous fees for net access. Once the media backlash stops I think it will be inevitable move towards having an account as a form of communication. Especially with the amount of Commercial sites forming in the past year. They public has accepted the net and they will continue to move into cyberspace. For better or worse. Nick. Article: 10816 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Alan Sondheim Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Pang Date: 13 Sep 1994 17:04:48 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 18 Message-ID: <354f2g$cv3@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 01:39:00 -0400 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..967:13.08.94.15.04.14"@uib.no> In regard to Shawn's post, I do have a question which seems off-topic but not really. What is it about Bjork, P.J. Harvey, Tori Amos that seems to set an almost visionary stage for music yet to come? Also thinking of Bikini Kill, Hole, etc. but particularly the first three, who have an edge to them that seems new? In spite of Amos' folk-singing qualties. In particular, PJH seems to use the body in a way that's completely disassociative, as if intention has moved to the voice alone, as if that voice keeps trying to escape. Like punk this is an inverse of normal production - it's not the body that's being produced, but the body that's forced to inhabit the voice - so that it becomes an anti-technology site as well, as is her return to releasing studio sessions. And wouldn't this insistence also signal a new feminism, at least with music, in which it's the _speaking_ or _singing_ body - the body articulating itself/desires replaced by the voice's articulation - that matters? Something out of the Riot Grrrls which refuses silence and doesn't play pretty. Alan, dressed dully as usual, sitting in that very silence and remembering all the PJ Harvey tapes lying around the apartment. Article: 10817 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Evan Kirchhoff Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: ping Date: 13 Sep 1994 17:06:56 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 21 Message-ID: <354f6g$d2k@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 00:47:04 -0500 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <9409130400.AA02466@rigel.cc.umanitoba.ca> from "aka bookish" at Sep 12, 94 04:04:53 pm Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..082:13.08.94.15.06.48"@uib.no> aka bookish says: > - the whole 'death of FC' thang. sometimes, like this time, the low > volume and lack of direction really seems troubling, particularly to > those of us who have been around awhile. I think it breaks down to this: if FC is "dying" (and I think we can all agree that it's exhibiting a distinct lack of vital signs at the moment), then either (i) The need that it was previously satisfying is now being filled elsewhere; or (ii) The need that it was previously satisfying no longer exists. So -- to all the previously-prominent people who are drifting farther away but haven't quite left yet -- report back one more time, at least: which of the above is it? -- Evan Kirchhoff, kirchh@cc.umanitoba.ca Article: 10819 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Knut Mork Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 13 Sep 1994 18:09:49 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 43 Message-ID: <354isd$g09@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 09:41:24 +0200 Comments: To: FUTUREC@UAFSYSB.bitnet To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: Meng Weng Wong's message of Mon, 12 Sep 1994 17:41:14 -0400 <"alfie.uib..627:13.08.94.05.38.59"@uib.no> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..331:13.08.94.16.09.38"@uib.no> what are the most important books you've read about the future, that would be relevant to such a course? I usually hate this kind of thread (remember "what are you wearing now"?) so please respond only after serious consideraton, with a book summary if possible, critical review, that sort of thing. I'm indulging in this sort of activity on a personal scale over at fiction- of-philosophy. I have never read Toffler, generally don't read EFF docs, have considered reading McLuhan but have a long way to go before I do so; I make a habit of sucking my information out from the source, which is, as far as books are concerned, literature. For example: I'm in the middle of _The Ice-Shirt_ by William T. Vollmann. The Ice-Shirt is .. astounding. It is an incredible amalgam of Inuit creation myth, Icelandic Saga, and San Francisco reality (juxtaposing the Inuit tradition of how man became woman with the life of transvestites in S.F., or prostitutes in the Danish city Godthaab on Greenland). It is, ultimately, the story of how the Norsemen (or, rather, some of them) brought winter to North America, and how they began the wave of invasions of that country and its people. The prose quality is dazzling. What does this say about 'future culture'? Most importantly, it's written by a man who has, after all, grown up in modern-day America; not only that, but spent a lot of time on its underbelly. Who has, for that matter, lived for several years with Afghanistan guerillas in order to write short stories about them. Who spends his time puzzling out what today's culture is about, and thus, where it's going. Anything he has to say about now or the past has little pearls of information formed between the grit of prose. His take on the vikings is really just his take on a larger, Western culture which has in several ways been influenced by them. (And purely negative he is not; he's, happily, brighter than that.) This is the stuff that -I- read about the future. Vollmann and his contemporaries in style and theme (Mark Leyner, Kathy Acker, Eurudyce, or for that matter George Battaille, who connects in with older writers like Andre Gide) are all still relatively unknown names, but as America's young and *good* writers (or France's, as the case may be), they have a lot to think about. --Knut Article: 10821 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Alan Sondheim Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 13 Sep 1994 18:24:32 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 19 Message-ID: <354jo0$gq3@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 04:15:34 -0400 Comments: To: Future Culture Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409130651.AA22829@panix.com> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..935:13.08.94.16.24.02"@uib.no> Re. the post asking for suggested readings - Books about the future for the course - 1 The Postmodern Condition, Lyotard - classic on postmodernism 2 City of Quartz, Mike Davis - postmodern geography and urban future 3 Cyberspace: First Steps, Benedikt - obvious choice here 4 The Postmodern Reader, Docherty - useful collection of articles 5 The Panoptic Sort, Gandy - on controlled society 6 Brainmakers (forget the author) - pop book on future AI, useful 7 Information Warfare, Schwartau - what can go wrong 8 Mapping World Communication, Mattelart - difficult - check it out 9 Deleuze/Guattari's Thousand Plateaus - philosophically useful 10 Mode of Information, Mark Poster - poststructuralism and CMC 11 Material on Cyborgs in Haraway's Simians, Cyborgs, and Women 12 Technology 2001: The Future of Computing and Communications, Leebaert These are the texts that principally come to mind - there are others. Contact me if you're interested. Article: 10822 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Sakon Varanyuwatana Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 13 Sep 1994 18:47:01 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 5 Message-ID: <354l25$hp8@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 15:41:02 +0700 Comments: To: Future Culture Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409130646.NAA06639@ipied> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..687:13.08.94.16.46.48"@uib.no> I don't beleive all this crap I am seeing about the death of FC. I've just subscribed to this list for a week and all that I'm seeing is a lot people complaining and nothing about future culture. If I see no interesting subjects coming up I will signoff. -PP Article: 10824 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Parker Nunley Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC -Reply Date: 13 Sep 1994 22:55:16 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3553jk$ooh@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 08:31:00 CST Comments: To: futurec%uafsysb.bitnet@vm42.cso.uiuc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..905:13.08.94.20.55.01"@uib.no> I believe Sondheim's right on mark re net users and costs.....to even lurk, as I generally do, is capital intensive in time and money....as one becomes more involved the expenses increase....those of us at institutions where the cost to us is our time are indeed an elite few. I note with interest (and a great deal of skepticism) the expressed intent to carry the Net to the masses....not very likely, in my opinion....more likely this will become a device to further divide us into world-wide haves and have-nots. Cheers all, JPN Article: 10826 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "L.M.Orchard" Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: ping Date: 14 Sep 1994 04:47:29 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 55 Message-ID: <355o81$2lq@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 12:22:48 -0400 Comments: To: Future Culture To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409121334.JAA20143@cps201.cps.cmich.edu> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..721:14.08.94.02.47.11"@uib.no> On Mon, 12 Sep 1994, Trond Buland wrote: > On Mon, 12 Sep 1994, L.M.Orchard wrote: > > is it really happening this time? FutureCulture is dying? dying? can FUTUREC ever really die as long as the machinery remains in place? I think its just sleeping-- everyone has their lives to live right now. perhaps once we've gotten back into the swing of corporeal existence (i.e. classes for those in university, jobs for those working stiffs) things will pick back up. > if not even the possible death of the list is enough to > start anything new, i guess it'll all soon be over? no over? maybe starting over for another annual cycle, but I don't think its dead. anyway, don't think of FUTUREC as a something. its an US. a WE. FUTUREC doesn't just HAPPEN, we instill it with existence with our own flesh-become-word. > retelling of our common past this time, no new vitality being born > from the stories told around the electronic campfire? i guess all > the old ones, who could have told all those tales, are gone? retelling of a common past? on FC? well, I've been here for about a year, off and on. (it was my very first mailing list... *blush*) I'm mostly interested right now in what's happened to everyone over my net-deprived summer... > > well, ok, it's been some good years on FC. i've learned a lot from > lurking here (too bad i haven't contributed much but some occasional > noise), and FC has made me laugh, and cry, more than any other virtual > community..... me too. and FC has introduced me to a lot of other wonders that have verily influenced the direction of my life... (i.e. memetics, the idea of community, argument and thought, cognitive sciences, etc...) > guess i'll lurk on for some time, watch it all dwindle away...... hey! that's what's making it seem like its dying! DON'T LURK! Post! Post! Post! Even if its about nothing you'd think we'd be interested in! This is a community! Bond with us! :) And perhaps we'll do the same! :) > have a nice day! :-) > > tb > -- Dionnus Elektronn (aka Leslie Michael Orchard) "Don't sweat it, it's only ones and zeros." Article: 10828 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: m.i.watz@USIT.UIO.NO Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: i have nothing to offer but old love songs Date: 14 Sep 1994 06:30:40 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 145 Message-ID: <355u9g$46o@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 19:29:42 +0200 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..577:14.08.94.04.30.29"@uib.no> You know, it's so ironic. Last night I was hunting for lyrics archives to find the lyrics to the Pixies song "I've been tired" (from "Come on Pilgrim"), so I could post it to FC under this very subject line. But I haven't found it, so I guess I'll have to think for myself. I haven't had a voice here for a while, so bear with me. First off, I too get tired of this preoccupation with corpses. Nothing dies out here, it just goes into stasis (is rigor vivant a valid term? probably not) But I also get annoyed when I read people putting off complaints with a "quit whining" message. Sorry, Greg, but it turns me off. I almost felt tempted to flame the guy who posted the idiotic drivel about FC being a playground for people wanting psychological treatment. That really gets to me. Let me introduce myself: I'm Marius. I'm a human. I'm tired of cyberpunks. I'm interested in humans. I'm interested in the future and the culture of the future. I'm interested in why we're here and what happens to us in this bright bright playground of ours. But I've found it's not really about shiny happy people. It's about people. I care about people, and so do a lot of folks hereabouts. That's what made us stick around in the first place. Not the endless incantations of "what great people we are", just people trying to live their lives here and be real. Some people burned out trying to live a life here, because they lost contact with other parts of their lives. So they went back and found treasures in what is idiotically known as the Real Life (hate that expression, almost as much as I do VR). I respect those people, just like I respect those who say that they've had enough, FC has died for them and they have to leave. To say it in FC-speak: I *gnow* that feeling. I resented Andy coming in and pontificate about a list he so loudly left behind, but I can forgive that. No, I won't "join the tribe, man", but I'm perfectly willing to let others live their own lives. Which leads me to what has certainly caused me a lot of pain in this space, enough so that I've had real problems feeling well here for quite a while. I point no fingers, but I make no bones about the fact that some of the "gun control faction" disgust me. The self-serving "I'm telling you this even if you won't listen" crowd, who has refused to recognize that their presence is not desired are as much of a cancer in this space as alt.syntax.tactical has been on Usenet. Sorry guys, I can respect your need for discussion but please do it somewhere else. Yes, there is a lot of room here, but that doesn't mean you should fill it just because that suits you. For long periods of time I have had nothing to say because of the repressed anger I've felt holed up in this community, never quite vented but still there. After Michael's death I couldn't take it. I couldn't speak about anything in a space where his absence is so obvious and yet the conspiracy theorists blather on, heedless. I know it's irrational to judge them for this, but that's what humans are. This human is, anyway. It encouraged me to go elsewhere and see what I could find and who I could be. I found some spaces where I have thrived. I've been here all the time too, but had nothing to say. Regarding the almost outspoken jealousy against Cybermind, I have little to say, except have patience. Yes, there has been a brain drain from FC to Cybermind and its related lists, but none that couldn't be fixed. FC is not Cybermind and Cybermind is not FC. The people on those lists overlap somewhat, but the context is different. In some ways I like Cybermind, in others I like FC. Both places fill needs. Over the summer I've needed Cybermind the most, but it's not a matter of unfaithfulness, just polygamy at its best. You know what really touched me on FC last? The quilters. Thanks, Debbie. Thanks, Paula. I have on my disk a long post I wrote but never sent as a response to the quilters. I had lots to say, but not the right things. I was nostalgic about FC. I don't want to be that anymore. Where to go? Don't ask me, I perform no miracles.. Like shawn, I'm struggling with a grief that is hard to explain or even feel. Like all of you, I have a life to live. Not always an easy one these days, but I get by. I have this idea that FC needs blood to live on. Like any good vampire, it needs its fix. It needs humans to be the machine. And when the old ones get tired, it needs new ones. We need newbies, dammit. Maybe it's time to go on a recruiting spree. Should be better than to hear ourselves moan. But don't just post to alt.cyberpunk. Post to alt.architecture, alt.postmodern, alt.etext, alt.hypertext, alt.destroy.the.internet, alt.zines, comp.ai.alife, comp.internet.net-happenings etc. Post to groups that may have relevance yet is not your generic cyberiffic rubbish. We need new blood in here. To Trond I say: Light a fire, we'll sit around it. To Otto I say: Yes, this is funny. Yes, this is babble. This is what we do here. To Greg I say: I know what you mean, but try to look at more sides of it before you poke a finger. To Richard Martin I say: Man, things haven't changed. To Shawn I say: Yes, we've been careless. To Goran I say: Ping back, no packet lost. To Pippa I say: Thanks for the dreamtime info. To Alan I say: Post your questions here too. To Jodi I say: What was that about Stone Soup? You know them? To rez I say: Where are you, man? To Knut I say: Miss you, man. To Erich I say: Good luck, wherever you are. To Michael I say: We miss you. To the newbies I say: Speak up! To FC I say: Write your life in blood. justatiredoldangelmarius Article: 10833 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Meng Weng Wong Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: ping Date: 14 Sep 1994 10:11:10 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 15 Message-ID: <356b6u$beo@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 15:23:12 -0400 Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.bitnet@vm42.cso.uiuc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <9409131525.AA21188@orion.sas.upenn.edu> from "Evan Kirchhoff" at Sep 13, 94 00:47:04 am Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..700:14.08.94.08.11.03"@uib.no> | I think it breaks down to this: if FC is "dying" (and I think we can all | agree that it's exhibiting a distinct lack of vital signs at the moment), | then either | | (i) The need that it was previously satisfying is now being filled | elsewhere; or | | (ii) The need that it was previously satisfying no longer exists. | (iii) The old-timers have gotten a grip on the future and are busy making it happen. Thus, swamped with projects, etc, etc, bringing the Internet to you. freeside Article: 10834 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Trond Buland Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 14 Sep 1994 10:32:22 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 35 Message-ID: <356cem$ce7@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 22:31:15 GMT-0100 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..400:14.08.94.08.32.16"@uib.no> Tue, 13 Sep 1994, Sakon Varanyuwatana said: > I don't beleive all this crap I am seeing about the death of FC. > I've just subscribed to this list for a week and all that I'm seeing is a > lot people complaining and nothing about future culture. > If I see no interesting subjects coming up I will signoff. > -PP fair enough! only thing is, the way i see it, Future Culture is something more than a forum for discussing the future of culture, or the culture of the future, or whatever the term future culture might mean. in addition to being such a forum, FC is a living "experiment" in building a community based on network mediated communication, a virtual community if you like, a "place in the net" where people can meet and exchange ideas, information, feelings, and sometimes noise ('cause there's no communication and no community without noise!). at least that's what some of us tend to belive that FC "is". and as i guess you can see by now (if you haven't signoffed already), you happened to enter this community at the time of what some of us think is a (small?) communal crisis. so be patient, bear with us, we'll get better (hopefully!). have a nice day! tb where are you from, anyway? <-------------------------------------------------> < Trond Buland > < e-mail: trond.buland@ifim.sintef.no > < phone:+47 73 59 25 65 home:+47 73 52 78 21 > <-------------------------------------------------> Article: 10835 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Philippa E Holloway Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 14 Sep 1994 11:02:17 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 47 Message-ID: <356e6p$dn1@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 16:29:06 -0400 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..368:14.08.94.09.02.09"@uib.no> When I was away from the net and camping for 6 weeks this summer, I spent some time thinking about what I missed about being on-line. I realized that although I spent more time last year fooling around on MOOs, the most valuable time I spent was reading FC. I've been subbed for over a year now, and the stuff in my brain that has some link to something I read on FC is pretty huge. As I approach issues, articles, books, questions, Im find myself frequently thinking 'yeah, like how there was a discussion on fc of....' So, I've been pretty quiet til recently, but Im committeed to helping keep this place hopping. Alan said: > > people coming on board. How do we cope with this? And another question - > is the Net overrated in the first place, at least in terms of > demographics - it seems to be. A recent study indicated there are only > 2-3 million real users total. And outside of university communities, > there seem very very few - I know of almost no one on. I was at the Michigan Womyns Music festival this summer. Over 7,000 people. There was a workshop for Women on the Net or something. (I had tried to organize something like this, but someone else beat me to it.) Anyway, I was WAY surprized by the sparse attendence and the low level of knowledge of those that came. Maybe 30 people were there. About 5 were on AOL and were big into the chat scene there. Like, 3 people were professionals in information systems stuff, so knew some about business related stuff. And only two people besides myself had ever explored much, done gopher searches, knew what a MUD was, ftp-ed etc. The other 20 people came because they were thinking about buying a modem or something. So, maybe the news of its _birth_ are slightly exagerated.... --Pip holloway.28@osu.edu Trying to dress decent today (had an orientation for new T.A.'s) Dark green and grey slacks, maroon silk shirt, cool black shoes with metal toes Listening to: The hum of old imagewriter printers and a lab attendant with an indian accent trying to be patient. Article: 10836 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Ryan Scott Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 14 Sep 1994 11:28:10 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 47 Message-ID: <356fna$fgv@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 16:52:06 -0400 Comments: To: Future Culture Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409130426.AAA43537@inca.gate.net> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..004:14.08.94.09.27.45"@uib.no> On Mon, 12 Sep 1994, Alan Sondheim wrote: > Ironically, I think FC is needed now more than ever, particularly with so > many new people (I hate the word "newbies") signing on - the Net is going > to change, with a lot of only semi-interested, semi-computer-literate > people coming on board. How do we cope with this? And another question - > is the Net overrated in the first place, at least in terms of > demographics - it seems to be. A recent study indicated there are only > 2-3 million real users total. And outside of university communities, > there seem very very few - I know of almost no one on. One problem is > that if a server charges either for email or Net-time, then it becomes a > dial-up service instead of a site for discussion or inhabiting - you want > to stay on as little as possible, perhaps do your ftp (if you even know > what that is) and leave. As apart from the telephone, which has become a > part of every-day life... I really think those numbers are *way* offbase... I work at a internet access provider in South Florida - we've been around maybe 8 months. Its catching fire down here... We don't have to advertise, word of mouth keeps us going crazy with business. Its getting really big, those numbers are WAY out of line. We dont' charge for connect time on the shell accounts so people can use it without worrying about on-line time. I think most folks are going to flat-rate. Lots of newbies, sure, but I think a lot of people are using it productively. OK, so we got the IRC addicts proud to be wasting their lives 12 hours a day (almost as bad as tv)... but I see some real people in the net and it actually gives me some hope for the human race. Of course on the net I can be selective about who I associate with ;-) As for knowing almost no one... where do you live? This time last year I could say the same thing. Now I know lots of people on the net, even geographically local people. Word spreads fast. I'm new to this list, and I didn't know your friend Michael is it, but I feel for everyone who knew him. It was obviously a great loss to many. Other than that, whats everybody so bummed about?! This is the most exciting time to be alive... ______________________________________________________________________________ Ryan Scott - rscott@gate.net CyberGate Support Manager PLAYFIELD! AMOS Resources 1 800 NET GATE http://www.gate.net/amos/play/ Internet Connections Article: 10837 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Neil Kennedy Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 14 Sep 1994 11:40:10 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 31 Message-ID: <356gdq$g21@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Neil Kennedy NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 18:01:55 -0300 Comments: NB*net - New Brunswick's Regional Network 1-800-561-4459 To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..388:14.08.94.09.39.55"@uib.no> pp writes: > I don't beleive all this crap I am seeing about the death of FC. > I've just subscribed to this list for a week and all that I'm seeing is a > lot people complaining and nothing about future culture. > If I see no interesting subjects coming up I will signoff. quick - somebody say something interesting...;) i, for one, am not biting my nails, thinking about the imminent demise of fc. there are times when i am content to sit among friends and say nothing. we enjoy the silence. same here... even when it's quiet, i know you're out there, everybody. i can feel you checking your mail. yeah, it's been quiet. that can be ok, yaknow. ..and if i've pissed you off, come and get me! pppptttpptttppttptt! tyfyka n neil kennedy - kennedyn@nbnet.nb.ca 'do you think god lets you plea bargain?' - calvin (through bill watterson) 'don't try to have the last word. you might get it.' - lazarus long (through robert a heinlein) 'p: doctor... my arm hurts when i do this! d: then don't do that' - ancient zen koan? Article: 10838 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Neil Kennedy Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 14 Sep 1994 11:43:22 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 42 Message-ID: <356gjq$g80@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Neil Kennedy NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 18:05:35 -0300 Comments: NB*net - New Brunswick's Regional Network 1-800-561-4459 To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..474:14.08.94.09.43.11"@uib.no> alan writes: > Re. the post asking for suggested readings - > > Books about the future for the course - > > 1 The Postmodern Condition, Lyotard - classic on postmodernism > 2 City of Quartz, Mike Davis - postmodern geography and urban future > 3 Cyberspace: First Steps, Benedikt - obvious choice here > 4 The Postmodern Reader, Docherty - useful collection of articles > 5 The Panoptic Sort, Gandy - on controlled society > 6 Brainmakers (forget the author) - pop book on future AI, useful > 7 Information Warfare, Schwartau - what can go wrong > 8 Mapping World Communication, Mattelart - difficult - check it out > 9 Deleuze/Guattari's Thousand Plateaus - philosophically useful > 10 Mode of Information, Mark Poster - poststructuralism and CMC > 11 Material on Cyborgs in Haraway's Simians, Cyborgs, and Women > 12 Technology 2001: The Future of Computing and Communications, Leebaert > > These are the texts that principally come to mind - there are others. > Contact me if you're interested. ..what, no doctor fun?!? what would you recommend as a starter for an under-educated, over-opinionated, lazy person with very little time? ..besides doctor fun? tyfyka n neil kennedy - kennedyn@nbnet.nb.ca 'do you think god lets you plea bargain?' - calvin (through bill watterson) 'don't try to have the last word. you might get it.' - lazarus long (through robert a heinlein) 'p: doctor... my arm hurts when i do this! d: then don't do that' - ancient zen koan? Article: 10841 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: CtG Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: ping Date: 14 Sep 1994 14:15:46 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 24 Message-ID: <356phi$q4u@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 18:02:46 -0500 Comments: To: FUTUREC@UAFSYSB.bitnet To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409131523.AA17408@csn.org> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..939:14.08.94.12.15.12"@uib.no> Regarding: Re: ping > (i) The need that it was previously satisfying is now being filled > elsewhere; or > (ii) The need that it was previously satisfying no longer exists. These options don't sound too cheery, but what the hey. Gotta look problems in the face I suppose. So, take a look at the "need" that FC fulfilled in the past. Tricky, huh? What need is it that might be currently being fulfilled elsewhere? Again, tricky. as I see it, the "need" is the need to know, to feel, and to communicate. With those who are pushing the edge, and with eachother (and many of the "eachother" fall into the "those who are pushing the edge" category, vice versa, etc... or at least thats the way it was). So, since the community as a whole *does* stuff, then right after you post your re-intro to FC, tell me what it is exactly that is *the* most important (net.) thing in your life right now. What is it that is driving you, or why not if you are standing still. --- Chris or, something like that. Article: 10842 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: CtG Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 14 Sep 1994 14:15:46 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 17 Message-ID: <356phi$q4r@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 18:02:47 -0500 Comments: To: FUTUREC@UAFSYSB.bitnet To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409131800.AA17715@csn.org> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..941:14.08.94.12.15.15"@uib.no> Regarding: Re: the oft-reported death of FC > I don't beleive all this crap I am seeing about the death of FC. > I've just subscribed to this list for a week and all that I'm seeing is a > lot people complaining and nothing about future culture. > If I see no interesting subjects coming up I will signoff. "Give us a week, and we'll take off the weight" er, no. That's not how we've been working around here. Again, FC dying isn't just a topic of conversation, it's a community trying to re-vitalize itself because most of the members are either disgruntled/bored. However, I for one will do my best to interest you. Perhaps you have a suggested topic of conversation? --- Chris Article: 10843 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "Heath Michael R." Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 14 Sep 1994 17:10:23 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 8 Message-ID: <3573ov$8re@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 19:08:36 -0500 Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.bitnet@vm42.cso.uiuc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409130700.CAA14909@sunshine.eden.com> from "Meng Weng Wong" at Sep 12, 94 05:41:14 pm Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..624:14.08.94.15.09.58"@uib.no> > fs *> Very little cross-fertilization. Not at all Third Wave. One man *> against the system, just watch me. :) if anyone can do it, t'would be you. :) heath [rez] Article: 10844 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "Heath Michael R." Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: INTRODUCING MYSELF Date: 14 Sep 1994 17:12:34 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 21 Message-ID: <3573t2$8ug@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 19:15:21 -0500 Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.bitnet@vm42.cso.uiuc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409130125.UAA14221@sunshine.eden.com> from "Alexandre Fausto Semedo" at Sep 12, 94 08:32:06 pm Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..703:14.08.94.15.11.09"@uib.no> *> Hi there, I'm from Portugal and this is my first posting to this list. hello; i myself was born @ lages air-force base on e island of terciera, in the Azores islands in portugal. just a plain ol' american boy, but i call that island my home. anyway, noting the connection, however flimsy. *> recent discovery which made me curious, namely, the role of recent *> Psychedelic Drugs (not so recent) to the definition of alternate life styles *> within the framework of today's capitalist bourgeois society. *> And how to integrate the vision that these drugs offer in *> traditional scientific rationality. *> I would like to discuss these issues with someone over internet. i would point you towards another place i live on the net [sometimes the main one, and certainly the one from which i have fleshmet the most close fellows]; a list called Leri. it allows discussion of those sometiems touchy aspects, and how to use those insights for the benefit of viurtual culture. to sub, send to majordomo@pyramid.com w/ a "subscribe leri address@here.com" message in the body. for what it's worth. :) heath Article: 10846 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Frances Sendbuehler Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: quiet Date: 14 Sep 1994 17:45:20 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3575qg$ac7@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 22:55:41 -0400 To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..983:14.08.94.15.44.59"@uib.no> I heard someone die tonight. It's warm and rainy out tonight. The street is clogged with cars; people in ones and twos crawl down the street. There was no sickening squeal, no honking, no shouting. A crash of broken glass, a thump, then nothing but more than nothing. A profound, enormous silence. The sound of someone dying. The ambulance took a long time to arrive, set up a flare, waited for the cop, then drove away slowly. No lights, no siren. It's raining. I heard someone die tonight; it was quiet. Article: 10847 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Alan Sondheim Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC -Reply Date: 14 Sep 1994 17:51:20 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 12 Message-ID: <35765o$ajc@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 23:06:09 -0400 Comments: To: Future Culture Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409132349.AA27164@panix.com> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..377:14.08.94.15.51.07"@uib.no> In reply to Parker's post, it's really unclear how many of us there are on the Net of course. This is a surprisingly activated space - it takes some (minimal) computer know-how to sign on, but it is after all a situation of reading and writing, not so unlike school. So that there is a learning curve involved, but also real intellectual labor, no matter how insipid the discussions seem. And things quickly take off into all sorts of niches - like the world's longest usenet post/replies on alt.flame - there's a lot of inventiveness here. But I think all of this keeps a lot of people away - think of how easy gossip is on the telephone, and how much effort it takes here. Alan Article: 10853 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Alan Sondheim Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: questions Date: 14 Sep 1994 23:53:23 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 70 Message-ID: <357rcj$l7c@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 04:39:54 -0400 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..156:14.08.94.21.53.01"@uib.no> I just read Marius' post to future culture and he suggested I post the following, which appeared on cybermind originally and which might or might not have relevance here. I agree totally with Marius, and I find fc a warmer place than cybermind, and a different place - they have a different feeling, and I miss most of all Michael's presence here. Please, let's not talk about fc's death any longer, or even its moribund state. It's silly - there are too many other things to talk about. (I'd still like to hear more about P. J. Harvey who overwhelms me - ) Alan =======================================================SUN SEP 11, 1994 11.50.48 Questions What's the point of all this? Why do we continue in this fashion? What do we really have to say to each other? What do we really know about each other? Why do we chatter on and on? Why do we say the first thing that comes into our heads? Why do we tremble in the vicinity of the terminal? Why are we loners, isolated, marked by fear and desperation? What waste of resources are we consuming? What hysteria and aggression brings us to the point of tears? What forms of denial do we engage in, bound to our addictions? What passes for love or hate, what passes for thinking itself? What frauds are we, as if we belonged together in this world? Why do we insist on communities, on the genuine? Why do we belong to the legions of the false? What good can possibly come of this? What violence do we commit, knowingly or unknowlingly? What's love got to do with it? What disasters await the collapse of hard-drive memories? Would you want to leave this if you could? Would you want to run away, lose yourself in drugs and alcohol? Would you want to fuck your way to freedom? Why not shatter your life and the life of your friends? Why not sign off and kill yourself? Why do you think one of us understands what the other of us says? Why do you think the address is the person, that this is life itself? Why do you think life in this form is even worth living? Why are you afraid to look into a mirror, closing your eyes? Why are you not afraid to look into this terminal with open eyes? What are you afraid that the mirror will tell you? What do you hide behind here, uselessly reading and writing? Why do you tremble, always staring at the face of death? Would you come with me if you could, love me if you could? Would you murder me, burn me alive? Would you do nothing of the sort? What could you possibly gain in the end? Where are you headed continuing in this fashion? Where would you like to live, in or out of terminal decay? Where does your body go? When you are depressed, do you become demanding by denial? When you are depressed, do you write yourself into existence? When you write yourself, do you expect me to understand anything? Why would I possibly understand you when you cannot understand yourself? Why would I possibly care for you when you don't care for me? Why do we always hate one another and violate our promises? Why do we continue to log on, day after day, night after night? Why do we shake when our Server is down? Why do we have nightmares when the Terminal refuses our entry? Why does no one ever hear our cries, our pain? Why does everyone hear? What's the point of all this? Article: 10854 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Trond Buland Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 15 Sep 1994 00:21:40 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 21 Message-ID: <357t1k$ltj@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 11:59:29 GMT-0100 Comments: To: FUTUREC@UAFSYSB.bitnet To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..205:14.08.94.22.21.33"@uib.no> Tue, 13 Sep 1994, Ryan Scott said: > > Other than that, whats everybody so bummed about?! > > This is the most exciting time to be alive... that's almost an old chinese curse you know: "may you live in interesting times!" or something like that.... nah, i'm only(?) joking..... guess you're right.... have a nice day :-) tb <-------------------------------------------------> < Trond Buland > < e-mail: trond.buland@ifim.sintef.no > < phone:+47 73 59 25 65 home:+47 73 52 78 21 > <-------------------------------------------------> Article: 10855 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "Tye, Ben" Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Presentculture Date: 15 Sep 1994 00:28:14 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 33 Message-ID: <357tdu$m1f@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 10:52:00 0BS Comments: To: Futurec To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..380:14.08.94.22.27.28"@uib.no> I'm still relatively new to this list, I was lucky enough to subscribe a few weeks before the quilters postings and was really moved by them. I felt that there was something really good here and it was exciting to come to work each day and read what people had to say and to see if anyone had responded to my meager postings. Our server was down for a week and I lost my subscription, when I resubscribed everything had gone quiet, now things are moving again. FC will not die, it may change for better or for worse, it is up to the users to make it better. I thing that futureculture is perhaps a misnomer, I like to think of it as a forum of ideas that should enrich the present. We can only live in the present, and while it is important to consider the future from the viewpoint of making it 'better'. It is more important to live now and appreciate each moment as it happens, the buddhists aim to cultivate Satori, the Situationists aim for the 'revolution of everyday life' and the Surrealists call for the 'penetration on the mundane by the marvellous'. What we do now IS the future, because our actions are the cause of future effects, hence Karma. Anyway enough rambling, take care everyone. Ben :) Wearing : Denim shirt and blue jeans. Listening : Ronny Jordan. At : Work ( Research Office ) Sheffield University. England. B.S.Tye@SHU.AC.UK Article: 10857 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Trond Buland Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: introductions/ was: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 15 Sep 1994 01:10:50 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 70 Message-ID: <357vtq$mt6@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 13:36:14 GMT-0100 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..760:14.08.94.23.10.38"@uib.no> Mon, 12 Sep 1994 shawn said: > how about this? > > maybe we could start again here by re-introducing ourselves, oldtimers > and not-so-oldtimers alike. Erich's not here to honcho a personal-FAQ > roundup, but maybe we can carry on anyway. i'll post something later today. > introductions? yeah, why not, it may be a good idea.... besides, i've never done this before, not on FC i think.... i'm a 36 years old, male, bald and bearded norwegian sociologist, working in the field of STS (Science, Technology and Society), presently employed at a small research institute located in the third largest city of .no (boring, but it's an regular income), and still working part-time on my phd thesis (rejected once so far...) about the government initiated norwegian plan of action for information technology. in addit- ion i write science fiction, fantasy and horror (two collections of stories in print, small press). i've been reading sf and related material for as long as i can remember. guess that's my main hobby (together with reading comics, drinking (dark) beer and listening to all kinds of music (and FutureCulture has been an excellent pointer to new, interesting music for the last two years!)) i got interested in all that "boring socio-cultural" stuff in connection with the net (VR, cyberspace, hackers, cyberpunk, virtual communities and so on) both through my work as a sociologist and through excessive ;-) reading of sf. i'm living with a girl who at the moment is unemployed, trying to make some sort of a living as an artist/painter. together we have a daughter (or rather, she has us), 13 months old (some of you may remember when she was born?!). i drive a small italian car, i have no pets, i love hot (indian and thai) food. i was born and raised in the country, not that far from the city where i'm now living, and even if i've lived in urban areas for 20(?) years now, i still basically feel like a country boy. i'm no tech-wizard. far from it, even if i've used computers on and off for nearly 15 years (more, if you count the course in basic i had in high school, back in 1974/75), starting out doing statistical work (SPSS for those of you familiar with that packet) and (very primitive) word processing on a wax, then moving on to various pc's and pc- like machines, mostly used for word-processing. i was introdu- ced to the net in 1992, and loved it. came to FutureCulture in december 1992, after having read an interview with Andy Hawks in ScreamBaby (which i found while ftp'ing at eff.org) and have been here (mostly lurking) since then. guess that's me, or at least part of me (only the shell i guess, but that's better than nothing.....) ok, your turn, everybody! have a nice day :-) tb wearing: black jeans, red shirt, black leather vest, black dr. martens shoes, pewter hammer of thor in a leather string round my neck listening to: p.j.harvey, beck, noises from the street <-------------------------------------------------> < Trond Buland > < e-mail: trond.buland@ifim.sintef.no > < phone:+47 73 59 25 65 home:+47 73 52 78 21 > <-------------------------------------------------> Article: 10858 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "Jodi J. Showers" Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 15 Sep 1994 01:43:59 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 13 Message-ID: <3581rv$nul@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 08:18:00 EDT Comments: To: Future Culture To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..651:14.08.94.23.43.45"@uib.no> Sakon had little to say: >I don't beleive all this crap I am seeing about the death of FC. >I've just subscribed to this list for a week and all that I'm seeing is a >lot people complaining and nothing about future culture. >If I see no interesting subjects coming up I will signoff. >-PP hay mahn, be response-able. which means if there's a do something, bitchin' isn't a solution. If this is a community that you want to be a member of, take responsibility, else take-off, eh. Article: 10860 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: aka bookish Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: please allow me to introduce myself... Date: 15 Sep 1994 06:55:22 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 58 Message-ID: <358k3q$17o@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 11:39:15 -0400 Comments: To: Future Culture To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..208:15.08.94.04.55.15"@uib.no> well, since i sorta started this intro thing, perhaps i had better do my part. i'm shawn p. wilbur, a grad student in american culture studies at bowling green state university in bowling green, ohio. a fair number of folks on the net know me as 'bookish.' i co-edit two e-zines, _voices from the net_ and _liminal_. i'm a wizard on PMC-MOO and BayMOO. i used to be a councilor on MediaMOO, but... i was born in the redwood empire of california, moved to southern idaho when i was 9 days old - over donner pass in a blizzard, but we didn't have to eat any party members. since then i've bounced around the country a fair amount, with extended stays in southern california (ojai) and oregon (portland and corvallis). a lot of my summers have been spent in northern new hampshire, at a family cabin. through my formative years, my dad was studying endangered vultures. it's no wonder i turned out like i did. i'm 31 and hope to get my ph.d finished up this next summer. i've bounced around academically even more than i have geographically - through geology, english, business, popular culture, and now american culture studies with concentrations in philosophy and sociology. my dissertation is an exploration of 'virtual communities', both on the net and off, starting with the question of what 'virtual community' and 'cyberspace' and terms like that can actually mean. i've been on future culture for a year and some months now. it's been the place that has given me the most pleasure, and the source of many of my most satisfying net-friendships. so many of the other net-projects that i have become involved with have been a result of contacts made and plots cooked up right t/here. i consider FC part of a shifting 'neighborhood' of online environments - including leri and it's spin-offs, cybermind and a few of the other spoons and dialoguenet lists, BayMOO and corners of PMC-MOO, etc... my own commitments to those other collectivities change, but so far FC is the thing that i am loathe to do without for any extended period. chris, right now that question of community is what's driving me, along with a sense (not unrelated) that we are going to have to rethink things like hospitality, communication, love and the gift, etc if we are to carry on the work that we've been doing in spaces like FC. i'm finding these questions demanding taskmasters, perhaps because i haven't learned quite how to live with all the things they bring with them. anyway, good to meetchall -shawn wearing, listening, believing, and late for lunch(!) ########################################################################### # Shawn P. Wilbur aka bookish # American Culture Studies # # swilbur@andy.bgsu.edu # Bowling Green State University # ########################################################################### # "Can you imagine what The Futurists would have done with an Information # # Superhighway?" # # --Avant-Pop Manifesto # ########################################################################### Article: 10860 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: aka bookish Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: please allow me to introduce myself... Date: 15 Sep 1994 06:55:22 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 58 Message-ID: <358k3q$17o@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 11:39:15 -0400 Comments: To: Future Culture To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..208:15.08.94.04.55.15"@uib.no> well, since i sorta started this intro thing, perhaps i had better do my part. i'm shawn p. wilbur, a grad student in american culture studies at bowling green state university in bowling green, ohio. a fair number of folks on the net know me as 'bookish.' i co-edit two e-zines, _voices from the net_ and _liminal_. i'm a wizard on PMC-MOO and BayMOO. i used to be a councilor on MediaMOO, but... i was born in the redwood empire of california, moved to southern idaho when i was 9 days old - over donner pass in a blizzard, but we didn't have to eat any party members. since then i've bounced around the country a fair amount, with extended stays in southern california (ojai) and oregon (portland and corvallis). a lot of my summers have been spent in northern new hampshire, at a family cabin. through my formative years, my dad was studying endangered vultures. it's no wonder i turned out like i did. i'm 31 and hope to get my ph.d finished up this next summer. i've bounced around academically even more than i have geographically - through geology, english, business, popular culture, and now american culture studies with concentrations in philosophy and sociology. my dissertation is an exploration of 'virtual communities', both on the net and off, starting with the question of what 'virtual community' and 'cyberspace' and terms like that can actually mean. i've been on future culture for a year and some months now. it's been the place that has given me the most pleasure, and the source of many of my most satisfying net-friendships. so many of the other net-projects that i have become involved with have been a result of contacts made and plots cooked up right t/here. i consider FC part of a shifting 'neighborhood' of online environments - including leri and it's spin-offs, cybermind and a few of the other spoons and dialoguenet lists, BayMOO and corners of PMC-MOO, etc... my own commitments to those other collectivities change, but so far FC is the thing that i am loathe to do without for any extended period. chris, right now that question of community is what's driving me, along with a sense (not unrelated) that we are going to have to rethink things like hospitality, communication, love and the gift, etc if we are to carry on the work that we've been doing in spaces like FC. i'm finding these questions demanding taskmasters, perhaps because i haven't learned quite how to live with all the things they bring with them. anyway, good to meetchall -shawn wearing, listening, believing, and late for lunch(!) ########################################################################### # Shawn P. Wilbur aka bookish # American Culture Studies # # swilbur@andy.bgsu.edu # Bowling Green State University # ########################################################################### # "Can you imagine what The Futurists would have done with an Information # # Superhighway?" # # --Avant-Pop Manifesto # ########################################################################### Article: 10861 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "J. LeRoy" Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: quiet Date: 15 Sep 1994 08:46:18 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 24 Message-ID: <358qjq$36r@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 11:55:32 -0700 Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.bitnet@vm42.cso.uiuc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409141841.LAA08127@teleport.com> from "Frances Sendbuehler" at Sep 13, 94 10:55:41 pm Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..834:15.08.94.06.45.12"@uib.no> Frances: > > I heard someone die tonight. > > It's warm and rainy out tonight. The street is clogged with cars; people in > ones and twos crawl down the street. > > There was no sickening squeal, no honking, no shouting. A crash of broken > glass, a thump, then nothing but more than nothing. A profound, enormous > silence. The sound of someone dying. The ambulance took a long time to > arrive, set up a flare, waited for the cop, then drove away slowly. No > lights, no siren. > > It's raining. > > I heard someone die tonight; it was quiet. > Just sort of stops you,you feel a need but the need cannot be met. -- J. LeRoy (bensonj@teleport.com) "...in fact we are results..." - Aldous Huxley ------------------------------->>BVI-Central Box 4501 Portland OR 97208-4501 Article: 10862 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Alan Sondheim Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: Well,What do you think? ...really, this time Date: 15 Sep 1994 09:02:31 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 19 Message-ID: <358ri7$3pq@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 15:17:30 -0400 Comments: To: Neil Kennedy Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409141823.AA29733@panix.com> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..247:15.08.94.07.02.09"@uib.no> There are indications that our species indeed is "tied to our technology." Merlin Donald, in Origins of the Modern Mind, makes a case for technology being in fact a biological extension, that thinking is in part external, and that external memory (books, computers, etc.) is a 'natural' extension of the mind. This only makes sense, going back to Polanyi's notion of "tacit knowledge" which he developed - I think in the 60s, not sure - that when we use a screwdriver, for example, it becomes a tacit extension of the hand; we don't feel the separation. It would be the case then that we _always_ have been cyborg, at least for the past two million years or so when the Olduvai culture was a going concern. Cyborg seems to imply, however, a degree of _implantation,_ a bypassing of the physical body, so that the interface would appear to be directly through (unmediated) consciousness. Even here, cyborg can be seen as a tendency; the Sony Walkman, for example, is less mediated in a sense than the boombox, and we can go back to the huge Victrolas at the beginning of the century. Alan Article: 10871 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Neil Kennedy Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: introductions, belated though they be Date: 15 Sep 1994 14:11:04 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 46 Message-ID: <359dko$l0v@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Neil Kennedy NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 01:13:36 -0300 Comments: NB*net - New Brunswick's Regional Network 1-800-561-4459 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..183:15.08.94.12.10.49"@uib.no> it feels silly-good to do this. if you know what i mean. hi, my name is neil kennedy. i'm 25, living in moncton, new brunswick, canada. that's in the atlantic provinces, for those who don't savvy canadian geography. i'm working two jobs right now - the paying one is writer - producer - announcer - marketing consultant - image counselor - longterm strategy planner - network administrator for a small advertising firm that specializes in marketing for small retail businesses. i slice, dice, i'm self sharpening and can cut tomatoes and tin cans with ease. the non paying job is professional musician. i am THAT CLOSE to finishing my band's second record - 4 more songs to mix, should take about a week. music is my raison d'etre, my air and water. my spare time, such as it is, i spend reading my email, writing poetry (some posted to rec.arts.poems, if you're at all interested), doodling on my computer (i did a piece for an OTIS grid, and hope to do more when there's time), serving my feline companion, reading sf, contemplating the tao, climbing trees and mountains, learning c++. occasionally i eat or go to the bathroom. i drive a green geo tracker 4 x 4 that needs a wash. i'm listening to the latest nine inch nails, tool, rage against the machine, sarah mclaughlin (get it get it get it), tori, alice in chains, u2, peter gabriel. all kinds of everything. i was raised in toronto, but home is a tiny place called inverness, on the shores of cape breton island. long term goal is to develop a means of support for myself that allows me to return home, permanently. i am in love. it's hard as hell, she's 200 km away and not too happy with me. i'm working on it. so that's me. pleased ta meetcha. who's next? tyfyka n neil kennedy - kennedyn@nbnet.nb.ca 'do you think god lets you plea bargain?' - calvin (through bill watterson) 'don't try to have the last word. you might get it.' - lazarus long (through robert a heinlein) 'p: doctor... my arm hurts when i do this! d: then don't do that' - ancient zen koan? Article: 10880 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Gabriel Ramos-Fernandez Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: i have nothing to offer but old love songs Date: 16 Sep 1994 01:23:46 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 29 Message-ID: <35al22$f6b@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 15:25:39 -0400 Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.bitnet@vm42.cso.uiuc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <9409140658.AA24774@orion.sas.upenn.edu> from "m.i.watz@USIT.UIO.NO" at Sep 13, 94 07:29:42 pm Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..926:15.08.94.23.23.25"@uib.no> so, this is a newbie speaking up. I have been following all of what is posted in FC for a little while (yes, I am in the net since very recently), and you know what I find? A lot of people trying hard to communicate, but mostly, humans. Where I come from (doesn't matter, its different now), I used to think that the real change that this world needed was to get rid of many of our egocentric attitudes that tended to isolate us with a bunch of people similar to us (or what we consider to be so), and transform it into what would really be a better place to be. Well, I already have learned something from you guys: this, even in a new environment like the net, is not possible, because our own deep nature is tribal, and we tend to gather with those like us. So you have already formed your own tribe, why do you complain so much? In fact, why keep your community open when all you're going to find out there is more things to complain about? If this is really a space to talk about the culture of the future, I don't think that evoking the past and its glory will be of any use. If its only for the reminiscences of something that already happened, it should not be about the future. So, as you say, make this a space for humans, where the consequences of our own nature are accepted by everyone, and if that still keeps this place a confortable one, FC will be worthwhile. Gabriel "Be as happy as a clam" Article: 10874 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Trond Buland Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: quiet Date: 15 Sep 1994 15:36:35 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 25 Message-ID: <359il3$pov@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 08:53:05 GMT-0100 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..992:15.08.94.13.36.26"@uib.no> Tue, 13 Sep, Frances Sendbuehler: > I heard someone die tonight. > > It's warm and rainy out tonight. The street is clogged with cars; people in > ones and twos crawl down the street. > > There was no sickening squeal, no honking, no shouting. A crash of broken > glass, a thump, then nothing but more than nothing. A profound, enormous > silence. The sound of someone dying. The ambulance took a long time to > arrive, set up a flare, waited for the cop, then drove away slowly. No > lights, no siren. > > It's raining. > > I heard someone die tonight; it was quiet. > thanks for the reminder! <-------------------------------------------------> < Trond Buland > < e-mail: trond.buland@ifim.sintef.no > < phone:+47 73 59 25 65 home:+47 73 52 78 21 > <-------------------------------------------------> Article: 10876 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Joshua Matthew Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: introductions/ was: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 15 Sep 1994 15:45:37 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 40 Message-ID: <359j61$qa1@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: jmdern@mailbox.syr.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 02:52:45 LCL To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..322:15.08.94.13.44.44"@uib.no> Well... I've been too busy for the last couple of weeks to write as much as I have in the past, but I felt compelled to chirp now that I have some time on my hands... Introductions, huh? okay, I'm all for it... Well... I'm a junior at Syracuse University in the College of Visual and Performing Arts. My main course of study is filmmaking, but I also do extensive work in video art, computer graphics and animation, and various other kinds of multimedia. I am also a writer, a philosopher, and a musician. To expand on the last one, I am in a hardcore, well, actually an emo band, called Shenoem. Music for me is something that keeps me alive, perhaps more than anything else I do. Other intersting facts... I am vegan. For those that don't know, that means that I do not eat anything that is animal derived, nor wear anything animal derived, i.e. honey, whey, milk, wool, etc.. The rights of other living creatures is something that I take very seriously. I also am what is known as "straight-edge" which means that I do not drink or smoke or do any kind of drug. I was once a sponsered snowboarder.... and that's about it for the interesting facts... I have been on FC for over a year now. Though, I was not very vocal till this past summer. I have come to appreciate many things about the way people interact through using the internet. FC has been extremely positive in helping to diseminate many of the things that I struggle about, and many of the questions that I ask everyday. Of course, this is a very brief description of myself. Anyone who reads this and thinks that they truly know anything about me is wrong. This list is not just about tech. It never was. It's about people. It's about getting to know and appreciate people. Why else would we have cried upon the death of Michael? Why else would we wonder about where people are and what they are doing? Why else would we look foward to a response? This list can never die because it will always live in the memories of the people and personalities that existed within it.... joshua matthew Article: 10879 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: m.i.watz@USIT.UIO.NO Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 15 Sep 1994 17:09:08 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 28 Message-ID: <359o2k$17r@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 11:57:11 +0200 Comments: To: Future Culture To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..328:15.08.94.15.08.59"@uib.no> In article <356fna$fgv@ifi.uio.no>, Ryan Scott writes: |> This is the most exciting time to be alive... All times are the most exciting times in which to be alive. If they're not, you're dead. wearing: black jeans, black sweater, red vest and a fancy suit jacket (suits are the ultimate camouflage) listening to: _Microgravity_ by the Norwegian techno project _Biosphere_, later I will be listening to _Balanescu Quartet_ with their string quartet versions of Kraftwerk and the newly released Hakim Bey spoken word album _T.A.Z_ from Axiom/ Island records.... reading: _Remote Control_ by Barbara Kruger, _Pranks_ from Re/Search and rereading _Travels in Hyperreality_ by Umberto Eco believing in: myself, you, everyone and our ability to invent our own worlds... -- Marius NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: m.i.watz@usit.uio.no http://www.uio.no/~mwatz/ Article: 10883 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Gabriel Ramos-Fernandez Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: FC, no god and a newbie Date: 16 Sep 1994 01:43:13 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 28 Message-ID: <35am6h$fp1@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 20:59:05 -0400 Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.bitnet@vm42.cso.uiuc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <9409142156.AA27029@orion.sas.upenn.edu> from "Kristina Lerman" at Sep 13, 94 07:09:22 pm Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..984:15.08.94.23.43.02"@uib.no> so, this is a newbie speaking up. i've reading what is posted in FC for a while now (yes, i got into the net just recently) and you know what i see? A lot of people trying hard to communicate, but mainly, humans. from where i come from (doesn't matter, now it's different) i used to think that the change the world needed was to get rid of our egocentric attitudes that tend to set us apart from others, therefore making the world a more harmonious place to be. well, here you have showed me something already: human nature is tribal. we tend to gather with our own kind and isolate ourselves in groups. and this pattern is difficult to change, even in a new environment like the net. so why open your community to everyone, if you're going to complain about the way things are? those of you old-timers, i was dissapointed to hear you talking so much about the past. if this is supposed to be about the future, i don't see any use in gloryfing the days when things were different. this is about the days that will be different, if i get it right. so you have to assimilate changes, and accept them as a consequence of the human nature of those that conform this space. and, as there really is no god in cyberspace, all we have is our own selves to hear, understand, and in the end, love the others 'be happy as clams' gabriel Article: 10885 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: CtG Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: ping Date: 16 Sep 1994 02:08:54 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 15 Message-ID: <35anmm$gb6@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 14 Sep 1994 17:33:34 -0500 Comments: To: FUTUREC@UAFSYSB.bitnet To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409141010.AA29991@csn.org> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..476:16.08.94.00.08.20"@uib.no> Regarding: Re: ping > (iii) The old-timers have gotten a grip on the future and are busy > making it happen. Thus, swamped with projects, etc, etc, > bringing the Internet to you. - "Um... I'll take door number 3." - "Jay, Tell him what he's won!" - "Well Bob, he's won a fabulous new place on the electronic frontier..." It's where it's at people, for me at least. Making stuff happen, or at least providing stuff. If I could afford it, I'd give the net away free, but $6.50 an hour doesn't quite cut it. --- Chris Article: 10888 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Trond Buland Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: science fiction Date: 16 Sep 1994 02:18:34 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 29 Message-ID: <35ao8q$gj1@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 14:23:44 GMT-0100 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..015:16.08.94.00.18.18"@uib.no> i've been reading science fiction for almost as long as i can remember. and for at least the last ten years i've tried to convince friends and colleagues that science fiction really hasn't that much to do with "the future" at all, that good science fiction, like all literature, really is about the present, not the future. my problem now is that i've come to doubt this myself. i've started to think that m a y b e science fiction can, not make prophecies about the future, but maybe contribute to change the future, by changing the way we thing about the future, and about the present, by changing the dominant memes of the society, by changing the perceived scoop of possibilities. or something like that....... i guess quite a lot of FC members are or have been science fiction-readers, maybe even sf-fans (like i guess i am, or at least used to be; going to conventions, reading fanzines, making my own fanzines, participate in various fan-organi- zations), and it would be interesting to hear what you think of this; can science fiction be an important factor in the shaping of future technology and society, and in what way? tb <-------------------------------------------------> < Trond Buland > < e-mail: trond.buland@ifim.sintef.no > < phone:+47 73 59 25 65 home:+47 73 52 78 21 > <-------------------------------------------------> Article: 10890 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Philippa E Holloway Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: introductions/ was: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 16 Sep 1994 03:07:20 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 45 Message-ID: <35ar48$isq@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 08:58:35 -0400 Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.BITNET@PSUVM.PSU.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409150859.EAA18933@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> from "Trond Buland" at Sep 14, 94 01:36:14 pm Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..061:16.08.94.01.07.08"@uib.no> Introductions? Sure, I'll bite. Im in the mood for a bit of narcissism anyway. Im a 25 year old graduate student in history at Ohio State Univeristy in the U.S. Just moved here from North Carolina, where I got my M.A. at UNC-Greensboro. I study american history, primarily, and Im hoping to concentrate my studies in the areas of modern u.s., history of sexuality, politics, and (if its possible in Ohio) the u.s. south. Specifically, Im interested in studying the history of sexualtiy as a political issue in the u.s. south. For example, Im currently trying to get 2 papers published: "Helms Homosexualtiy and AIDS in the 1980's" (about Senator Jesse Helms, one of the most outspoken opponents of gay rights in the U.S. sentate) and "Lesbian and Gay Opposition to Crimes Against Nature Laws in North Carolina 1979-1985" (crimes against nature laws criminalize various consentual sex acts). Im hoping to write more stuff along these lines. I think I heard about FC from an article in the Utne reader last summer. FC and CUDigest (from which I have since unsubbed) were my first two e-lists. I hang out on LambdaMoo and PMC where Im Pip. (stop by and say hi!) I'm 5-3, have short curly hair, a southern accent which waxes and wanes (hoping it doesnt disappear altogether in Ohio). Im a pretty serious wightlifter and can bench press my body weight (cant resist bragging. Im proud of that) I love to move and be active -- I met someone this summer who said she had itchy feet, which might describe me also. I dance, run, bike, hike and wander as much as possible. Im single and usually date women. Periodically people think Im a little boy and therefore do unpleasant things like chase me out of the women's bathroom or dont believe Im old enough to write checks. Ah, that's enough. Kind of fun, actually. OK, who's next? Pip Oh, and I've been called Pippa most of my life, although I've always preferred being called Pip. (my brothers and real close friends call me Pip). So, Im trying out Pip for size as an everyday name -- introduced myself to people here in OH as Pip for the first time, and Im kinda liking it.... Article: 10895 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Walter Logeman Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: introduction Date: 16 Sep 1994 05:29:00 +0200 Organization: Psybernet Lines: 80 Message-ID: <35b3ds$l5n@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: postmast@link.equinox.gen.nz NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 01:06:00 LCL Comments: To: Future Culture To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..101:16.08.94.03.28.46"@uib.no> * In a message originally to all MSGID: 3:770/270.2 e7935b50 PID: timEd 1.00 TID: xMail 1.00 noreg EID: 49d0 d30210f1 Hi, My first post on FC though I have been reading here for several months. I have made it over the threshold to posting because of the thoughtful pleasant and challenging posts that have been appearing. Also I have had the intention of entering here when I completed a rather major development on the BBS I run. I now have almost completed its links to the net and I am writing here as if this were another Echo. I have not made this list public to the users -- as I would like to confirm that it is ok to do that. I am a psychotherapist in private practice and my interest in this medium is to explore and experience its psychological aspects. That, in the year or so I have been doing it has been an amazing experience. I have been part of a series of relationship dramas of intensity. More powerful than I thought possible in the medium. Many of the complexities have involved people I have both on and off line connection with, some of it has been painful -- giving me the impression that the medium can be harsh. Not so much because of the oft mentioned absence of body language but because the inability to hide behind it! Cutting accuracy of words, exposing what we have learnt to hide in face to face encounter. I am attracted to this list as I read: FC = Culture of the Future; community; 'To the newbies I say speakup'; god in cyberspace; quilters; and I was moved to tears when I first subscribed to hear people grieve the death of Michael Current, I think that was an initiation to being here for me; mariussigninghimselfoff; marius's list of warm connections with people from FC . . . I don't bother much with the stuff that offends me, which appears like intrusion and invasion from outside the list ethos. I am intrigued on how that is best dealt with. How does a list like this maintain an identity and focus? I am experienced in group psychotherapy, and I love the process of group life. A major project is our pioneering of what I have termed psybergroups, closed groups with qualified paid leader. I see this as an important niche in the development of the future culture on the net. I am 50, I live in Christchurch, New Zealand. I have a son who reads this in Japan. I live in a household with 4 others, one is my partner, another my stepdaughter. I love the mountains. Reading: Benedikt, Michael Ed 1991 Cyberspace, First Steps. The MIT Press, Cambridge, Massachusetts London, England. Hillman, James, 1975 Re-visioning Psychology. Perennial Library, Harper & Row, New York etc. John Kerr 1993. A Most Dangerous Method. The Story of Jung, Freud, and Sabina Spielrein. Alfred A. Knoph New York. Here goes . . . Walter --- xMail 1.00 * Origin: Focal Point -Unpublished- (3:770/270.2) -- MailGate 0.17 Article: 10897 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Neil Kennedy Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: introductions, belated though they be Date: 16 Sep 1994 06:08:03 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 73 Message-ID: <35b5n3$lpi@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Neil Kennedy NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 12:11:48 -0300 Comments: NB*net - New Brunswick's Regional Network 1-800-561-4459 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..997:16.08.94.04.07.47"@uib.no> From: ampc@mailserv.mta.ca (ampc) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 12:00:27 -0300 To: Neil Kennedy Subject: Re: introductions, belated though they be posting to fc on tony's behalf: Hi, my name is Tony Pace and I'm an internet junkie... But seriously, that is my name. I'm living in a house with some friends at Mount Allison University in Sackville, N.B., which incidentally is pretty damn close to where Neil lives, and I am willing to bet that we have some mutual acquaintances (Chris Donahee, for starters), and we may even have met before. A strange feeling to meet someone you are almost sure you are connected to through thousands of miles of wires and computers... matched only by meeting an old aquaintance through IRC from a chinese server. Maybe I will actually get to fleshmeet someone from the net for once, an experience I have always been denied by geographic isolation and lack of funds. I've been off FC all summer, being a student and having had to go home and work - I did get to work on a movie though - the Scarlet Letter for those who care. I met Gary Oldman and Roland Joffe and saw Demi Moore, so it was exciting I suppose. Still, I'm glad to be back. It was nice to catch up to some of the Usenet groups, but FC was the only thing on the net that I actually missed. I've been on FC almost since the beginning I guess, althought I didn't realize it at the time. I didn't even know that I was signing up for a mailing list at the time, I was just following the instructions in andy's .sig on alt.cyberpunk. A random way to do things - the net (and FutureCulture) have evolved since then. I was studying physics, but I've decided against that, and I seem to be leaning towards studying American History now, almost through circumstance more than any other factor. I am also studying photography this year, which makes me happy at least, since I've wanted to ever since I heard about the class. What is my life? Comfortable I guess. Me and three friends living in a professor's house - he was going on sabbatical, but he actually resigned. We met through role-playing games, and we still role-play regularly.It's out binding force as a group I guess. There is one guy and two girls, but one of the girls is lesbian and the other doesn't interest me - platonic I am afraid. There is a girl that I like very much though, and she seems to like me too - we'll see how things turn out I guess. I'm very much into industrial music and culture, and I dj the only industrial music show at our campus radio station. I like doing that a lot - it's very personally satisfying for me, to have that sense of putting oiut my message to the public, almost the same as posting to the net - a little bit of a rush. And I love the music too, the textures and rhythms and personalities... I'm from a small town named Yarmouth NS, but that's not my home anymore - Sackville is. I never really liked Yarmouth that much anyways - a dismal inbred little town. I'm glad to be gone. Still it influenced me, maybe even made me better by providing a negative role-model, something to polarize myself against. Now that I've told you a little about me, maybeee you can answer a few of my questions since I've just gotten back to the net. What happened to Michael? (I fear the worst) How can I get onto Cybermind? Are my posts getting through? Anyways, thanks for listening. tONY pACE ampc@mailserv.mta.ca neil kennedy - kennedyn@nbnet.nb.ca 'do you think god lets you plea bargain?' - calvin (through bill watterson) 'don't try to have the last word. you might get it.' - lazarus long (through robert a heinlein) 'p: doctor... my arm hurts when i do this! d: then don't do that' - ancient zen koan? Article: 10898 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "Tye, Ben" Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Introductions Date: 16 Sep 1994 06:16:11 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 39 Message-ID: <35b66b$lsl@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 16:16:00 0BS Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..271:16.08.94.04.16.02"@uib.no> Here goes nothing ..... Hi, my name is Ben Tye, I'm 24 years young, currently residing in Sheffield England. I am doing a Phd (surprise, surprise) studying the Modelling of Manufacturing Systems. I did a degree in Manufacturing Engineering and decided to do some computer related research so I wouldn't have to work in a factory for the rest of my life. My main interests are rock climbing, my girlfriend Nicola who is cool, mountain biking, music and books. Music I like : Public Enemy, Souls of Mischief, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, The Rollins Band, Fugazi, James Brown, Porno for Pyro's and loads of others. Authors I like : William Burroughs, Charles Bukowski, James Joyce, Raymond Carver, Bob Black, Hakim Bey, Robinson Jeffers, Bill Shakespeare, oh the list is endless. Other things I like : Chinese food, beer, laughing, my family. I don't think the internet is another 'world', its simply just a new part of this one. I can't accept that it is anything more than an efficient communication system that transends the normal limitations of status and nationality, but that in itself is what makes it so good. Well, that about wraps me up. Take Care Everyone. Ben :) ****************************************************************************** b.s.tye@shu.ac.uk "I'll put a good quote in here someday !!" - Me ****************************************************************************** Article: 10900 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "Gregory H. Ritter" Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: please allow me to introduce myself... Date: 16 Sep 1994 13:16:16 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 51 Message-ID: <35buq0$aki@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 17:10:13 EDT Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.BITNET@VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: ; from "aka bookish" at Sep 14, 94 11:39 am Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..261:16.08.94.11.15.57"@uib.no> Intro, intro, intro. This is a good idea for a thread, I think. I'm learning things about FCers that I didn't know. Named Greg Ritter, aged 28 years. Born and raised in Richmond, Virginia, USA. Went to Virginia Tech to major in computer science but wound up with a B.A. in English (1989)--one of the best moves I ever made. I also have a Master of Fine Arts degree in Creative Writing (fiction) from the Iowa Writer's Workshop (U. of Iowa, 1991). Taught literature and creative writing there. I write mostly short stories, but this summer I began work on a novel that was partially inspired by the FC conspiracy thread. (Conspiracy & paranoia are central to the novel. So is Edgar Allan Poe.) Kicked around for two years after Iowa. Lived in Manhattan for awhile. Taught high school at my alma mater in Richmond. Taught SAT prep courses for Kaplan. Freelanced as a copywriter. Started a monthly magazine in Richmond called _Caffeine_ (sort of like _Spy_ with a local-only bent) which just celebrated one year in print this summer. Last year I started teaching composition and rhetoric as an adjunct professor at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond (whereupon I finally obtained full Net access and got hooked), and also started taking graduate courses again. Next semester I'll finish an M.A. in American Literature. My yet- to-be-started thesis will probably be on cybernetics & system theory in contemporary American novels. Currently, I'm working with a group of painters, sculptors, poets, and fiction writers on a collaborative visual/verbal project, a narrative-collage that involves words, sculptures, images. (RL Hypertext?) Recently, I've become more interested in various literacy projects (and interested in just what literacy is and how we define it as a society). I'm also trying to organize a lobby group called Books Not Bombers, it's goal being to lobby congress to build just one less stealth bomber and divert that huge sum of money to need-based college scholarships. (This last project is in very early gestational stages.) Feel free to e-mail me for info on any of these things. I guess I've been on FC at least 13 months because I remember Trond's kid being born soon after I first logged on. It's the only list I've stayed on that long, probably because I find it the most mentally challenging. Contrary to popular opinion, I liked a lot of things about the gun thread, the conspiracy thread, the net.nihilism thread and other unpopular threads here. I do think they became unproductive when they got reduced to name-calling, but for the most part, they made me really analyze and clarify my own views. And as long as FC does that--pushes me to challenge and examine my own beliefs--I'll stay on this list. Greg Ritter eng3ghr@hibbs.vcu.edu Article: 10901 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "D.L. Richardson" <002134r@DRAGON.ACADIAU.CA> Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: introductions Date: 16 Sep 1994 13:27:44 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 48 Message-ID: <35bvfg$bc4@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 18:17:24 -0300 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..222:16.08.94.11.27.32"@uib.no> Right now, I'm depressed, but that's just 'cuz it's been a useless day. I guess that's the first thing people notice about me...I work too hard for little pay (if any). I'm 23, raised in Toronto/Hamilton Ontario, and now living in Wolfville Nova Scotia (also in the Atlantic Provinces). I'm a student, double major in soci and engl, honours in soci, minors in philosophy, geology, comparative religions, and comp. sci (honourary :). I speak one language with some facility, and dozens not at all. I wear jeans, tshirts, sweaters, hiking boots, and no make up. The Fashion Industry (tm) is a pet peeve. So is Huge Business. Socialism is my preferred political realm. I'm doing my thesis about FreeNets 'n' stuff. Socialism + NetTech = FreeNets. Mostly. It's all more complicated than I can presently cope with. I listen to pretty much any sort of music. This week it's been the new Nine Inch Nails contrasted with 16th C. counterpoint. (My roomy is a piano major, and pretty good at it too.) This morning I woke up to a pot of fresh coffee and Beethoven's 9th on CBC. And the dishes were done. (ramble) I read lots. Any genre, pretty much, except no "pulp" like Danielle Steele or Stephen King. Recently the reading list has contained 17th C. Canadian poetry, the Iliad, Burning Chrome, the Canadian Internet Guide, WIRED, Last of the Crazy People, and the House at Pooh Corner (with occassional references to the Tao Te Ching). I write poetry (mostly bad, some published) and articles (mostly bad some published). I am not famous, nor do I want to be. I am not rich, nor do I want to be. I plan on living by the ocean for the rest of my life, but I'd like to see Chile, Japan, China, India, the rest of Canada, and Australia before I settle down. I am single and loving it. I am presently as free as I'm ever going to be in my life, and I'm making the most of it. My cat loves me, and I love my cat. His name is Taliesin. *babble* (like anyone is going to actually read this whole thing ;) Debra L. Richardson (dlr) 002134r@dragon.acadiau.ca Noam Chomsky is a hero of mine. (among others...) wearing: shorts, tshirt, fuzzy slippers. reading: (see above) listening: to the wind...neat clouds today. thinking: that it's time to do something meaningful. Article: 10902 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Brian Beuchaw Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: introductions, belated though they be Date: 16 Sep 1994 13:37:28 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 45 Message-ID: <35c01o$cag@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 16:26:53 -0500 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..777:16.08.94.11.37.06"@uib.no> In your message of 15 Sep 1994 at 1607 CDT, you write: > > [n's personal history snipped for reasons of space] > > so that's me. pleased ta meetcha. who's next? I'll go for it. My name's Brian Beuchaw. Been lurking here for a few weeks (started right before the gun/conspiracy thang), signed on to kinda get info/educated about FC (and all it encompasses - which could damn near be everything as far as I can tell). I'm a sysprog on a large IBM mainframe at an Air Force Base in Oklahoma (the cultural wasteland/butthole of the USA). I'm a civilian, not military (I'd get thrown out in about 2 hours). I read all the requisite mags (WIRED, Mondo, PLAZM, io, BLack Ice, SPIN, Reader's Digest :-), and a few others sporadically), listen to: nin, The Velvet Underground, Throbbing Gristle, Joy Division, 70s era Miles Davis, Spacemen 3 (and associated projects), Patsy Cline, The Flaming Lips, Neil Young, Public Enemy, P-Funk, and the list goes on and on and on. I'm trying to get into the whole postmodern/cool readings: Kathy Acker, Avant-Pop, Black Ice books, Derrida, Foucault, Sensoria from Censorium, Re/Search, etc. but don't have very much time (and it's awful damned hard to find good reading material or music here in OKC). I also need to learn C and Unix, but don't have time. I don't make music, but music is a large part of my life (as is my wife - we met through personal ads and got married about a year later (been married since June 4). I'm 29, she's 3 yrs older. It was really nice to find somebody as weird as I am (in the same *and* different ways). I bounce all over the net when I get a chance (from work, not home - don't have the hardware yet), and am on this list, RMUSIC-L, droneon (a psychedelic/drone music list), net-happenings, funky-music, smothered-hope (Skinny Puppy's music), prince (Prince's music), CyberWire Dispatch, and a few other email lists. Anyway, this might ramble for a long time if I let it, so I'll stop. Next? cya brian "Open your mind and let it all come through" "Rollercoaster" - Roky Erickson by way of Spacemen 3 Article: 10909 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Brian Carroll Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: no god in cyberspace, introduction Date: 16 Sep 1994 19:20:51 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 173 Message-ID: <35ck5j$1ju@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 21:22:58 CST Comments: To: FUTUREC@UAFSYSB.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..842:16.08.94.17.20.27"@uib.no> >What is? The expected turn out? The lack of turn out? The weird way >in which [some] Americans love this sort of thing? >--Knut > > I don't know. I just think that when there really are "masses" on the network who haven't had to figure out how to use it, meaning when information is more hand-fed, well, then I see people with answers using this as a form of power. example... "Has your hard drive just dived? Have you e-mailed into the abyss with only a mailer-daemon's reply?" the preacher asks. "I can save you in this cyberspace, follow me, I will lead" Bullshit like that. Actually there was a really good 3 day mini-series on televangilism. It had the frigid woman physch on cheers, and one of those of old white haired guys. A television network chooses to "program" a holographic evangelical show which (with tech) ends up in transparent 3-d in everyones living room. People believe and churches are built outside. The street is taken over by these people, and those who are hiding are all drug addicts-- but they are "the underground" Anyway, I forget the ending, but hopefully it will re-run. Has anyone seen the movie "Network" ? It has this mass-mindedness which compares a newscaster with a preacher. Haven't seen it, only heard about it...information. Introduction: this is a compost pile, and I will be when I die. Sorry about the book list; I forgot about the "i don't want just a list of books" mention. That, with the introductions chance brings me to question other media of information. I guess music is a lead, but I am interested in what movies or speakers or television or other things that might relate to futurec... My favorite television show was on before halloween in the afternoons after school. It was on once a year and was the tale of frankinstein. Phillis Diller did the voice for misses f. and the cartoon looked just like here, except with a huge black turnip of a hairdoo with a white streak up the middle. Hah, the show still makes me laugh. Anyway, it all takes a place on an island and modern flight of a bi-plane makes it especially funny. They even had the flying monkeys. Anyway again, it was similar to "Rudolph"etc. animations, but way more advanced. Could have been clay. I haven't seen it in 10 years and I have forgotten the name, anyone know? I stopped watching Hollywood films about 4 years ago because of lack of interest. Occasionally I see one. "Dogs of Hell" (?) was one of these, another was "morrison" to finalize the fanaticism that overtakes people as they define their ideas. "morrison" came out, and everyone became an apostle of Jim himself. Spooky stuff. Identity, who do you identify with? My big exception is Wim Wenders. I have enjoyed every one of his films, although I haven't seen far-away-so-close. Music. I stopped listening to music about 4 months ago. I listen to about 5 minutes a day, sometimes. I listen to NPR/MPR here in the Twin Cities. The last album i bought was sugar (bob mould) BEASTER; it just so happened that Waco happened on that same day and I was listening to it while watching it on television. It was a very powerful experience. Lewis Mumford summed up music for me when he analyzed the orchestra as a model of factory. The conductor is the manager of the information, and each instrument is a machine, that as a result hold the interest of a consumer, or the audience. Same thing with Husker Du: or whoever they may be. Found myself rationalizing things the way lyrics are, and well, the songwriters are really not all that deep. How deep can you get in 2 minutes while repeating yourself? Yah, yah, emotions, but what about meaning? John Cage filled this void with silence. Car horns, fractal music. What do you think future music will be like? Well, here's the place I have found myself. It has been over one year that I have had my computer. Never used one before that. But I knew about the Internet, and I glorified in the "key" of a $50 modem. No one I know is into the network, very little interest. The computer has filled the void created by partial friendships and a lot of time. I bought it, a used zeos-386sx20 laptop, because I thought it would help me organize my ideas about architecture. I was a student, and in a week I will be returning to my universitys college of arch to complete my sentence. I will remain there for roughly 3 more years. Again, I bought the computer to help organize my thoughts on architecture. I have a thesis researched- The Architecture of Electricity but technology is recognized as having no social role in a building. This is in school, but it is also in the history books. In fact, Electricity is presumed to have no affect on architectural history- amazing! Anyway, this is what I see as my direction in life... to prove the electrical system is the architecture of our time. many dimensions, here is an aesthetic example. Classical architecture had a common aesthetic and order that defined it as a civilization. Today a similar order- those of wooden distribution poles and metal transmission towers-- represent the continuation of this classical order, or, the extension of antiquity... | | --------- wooden cross | | /o cobra streetlight |/ | | _______________________________________|____________________________________ the baroque quality of a cross and a snake = christianity What do you think? I just got mail for a new magazine called CIVILIZATION. Guess who its from...The Library of Congress. American Civilization, Democratic Civilization, wow. I'd rather contemplate the role of the United Nations, and how each community can now participate on these scales. I got a job 4 weeks ago surveying vacant and boarded houses in a low-income neighborhood of 18,000 people. 15% don't have telephones. Some have no running water, some don't have kitchens, sewage disposal or winter heat. Guess where... a large urban neighborhood. They do have culture. Now I am working on creating a database for a survey I will conduct. 6,800 homes with all their characteristics. Then the community will be able to buy/sell rehab/demolish the houses they choose fit. Real cool. They are setting up a Free-Net, and I am working on a proposal for access for them tonight. 350 crack houses, now down to 110. I live about 25 minute bike ride from the neighborhood, and many days this week it has rained, that means biking, getting wet, sitting in air-conditioning, and biking back home. tough, right? Well, today was a special day becuase while it is not good to be fearful of certain situations, sometimes it is good to be scared. Sitting on my lunch break outside of the office, eating a pbj and coke, went to SA to buy oboises, having smokes, reading a community paper when 3 guys are loud and walking up, I look up, and down and continue reading. Then they surround me and ask for three cigarettes. "Sorry" I say, I'v bummed 2 already, that's my limit, 2 a day. If you have .20 I'll give you one" One of the three starts getting worked and swearing, one agrees to pay .20. I begin to pull out a cigarette, hearing the swearing of the jumpy one, when the police pull into the lot behind them. The jumpy one swears! and blap! knocks my pack of smokes out of my hand, all over. The cop is watching this in his squad, I am watching the cop, and none of these guys know the police are behind them. Copy says- "Did you just slap those cigarettes out of his hand" the jumpy one turns around "oh-, shit" The policemen get out and ask if this is true, I told them what happened, 'that we agreed on .20, and the guy spazzed.' All three are spread eagle on against the wall where I am eating lunch. Another policecar pulls up, after 1 minute. They ask information, cuff one for drug possession, and jumpy for assualt and drug possesion- "YOur GOing To JAil!" the cop says. Oh shit, I say. I gave them 3 cigarettes. "You're going to need these" Jumpy says "i know your name, Im gonna get you!" He does know me, he knows where I will be everyday for the next few months. I may even meet him again in the neighborhood, that is, when he gets out of jail- 3days, 30days, I don't know. They left shakys bike there and I told the one who was released, He came back to get it and offered me a sandwich. Kinda strange. Had to say that. Tired. Just finished my proposal and now i am gone, brian sorry for the really long post but everybody should get at least one. oh yeah, G.R. your 28 ? i thought you were some 50 year old nutty professor Article: 10934 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "Kellar, Jeff" Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: introduction Date: 20 Sep 1994 23:36:33 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 55 Message-ID: <35nkl1$4v6@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 17:56:14 EST Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..269:20.08.94.21.36.23"@uib.no> Finally got around to doing this. Been timid about it for some reason. I'm Jeff Kellar, 28, straight, Double-Libra, techno-freak working to live. Philosophy? Let's see...I believe that there is a general misalignment of priorities in society today which keeps everyone chasing the sheep instead of fixing the fence, if you get my drift. There is no better way to get on my sh*t list than to attempt to enforce your personal value/moral/ethic set on _everybody_ who doesn't agree with you. Finally, we would all be better off if we spent less time attempting to sort everything into black/ white, republican/ democrat, good/ evil, etc. and spent more trying to find common ground. Whew :-) I try to do a little of everything at least once. I regularly read, hike, camp, carouse, see live music, lurk around the net, mountain bike, museum-hop, bar-hop, meditate, and practice Yi Chuan. I've been known to dance (not enough), motorcycle (ditto), bungee-jump, sketch, restore cars, rock climb, build furniture and silk-screen t-shirts. I'm listening to the radio, which you can do in NYC only if you have a broad taste in music and have a lot of pre-sets. It's still pretty lame. I've just had a years bout with cancer, and it looks like we got it. Finally got my hair back! Feel free to post me for details/ advice/ support anytime. I'm a Programmer/ Analyst for a Scientific Journals publisher here in New York City. Mostly database stuff. We're pushing towards publishing/abstracting on the 'commerce-net'. Last substantial book read: _Focault's_Pendulum_ by Umberto Eco. Great book, but it sorta pissed me off. Sates your intellectual/ philosophical side but lets down your "I can't wait for the ending" side. Last CD purchased: _Purple_ by Stone Temple Pilots. Very good, but not as good as _Core_. 5'10, 195, Dk Brown hair, Hazel eyes, t-shirt & jeans unless there's a reason. Geez. This thing is too long. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jeff Kellar | Any views expressed here are my own j.kellar@elsevier.com | and probably not anybody elses. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "For all men seek to learn what they do not know, while none seek to understand what they already know. This is why there is chaos." -unknown "Remove this animal! -Lord Garth =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Article: 10938 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Brian Carroll Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Future Culture Constitution Date: 21 Sep 1994 09:34:12 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 36 Message-ID: <35onlk$ib3@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 08:08:34 CST Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..951:21.08.94.05.54.38"@uib.no> I am curious if other lists have moderated themselves by use of an online constitution, so that general topics are agreed upon, and the focus does not drift from where it is wanted. Besides a declaration of what Future Culture wants to be, it would be interesting to know what others consider Future Culture since so many new people are on this list. What about the submission of general categories that would be compiled with respect to the "subject" of an e-mail message... Let's say there are categories SCIENCE PEOPLE CULTURE TECHNOLOGY LANGUAGE NETWORKS or whatever, and that if I were to post an article like f.s. on the phone companies the subject would read something like- Networks: Phone Companies and the E-Highway Maybe not, I just like the idea of a discussion of what Future Culture is, because when I post I feel mighty fine about my understanding of it, but my thinking may not be understood as relevant to others, Any ideas? too involved and unnecessary? Just a suggestion, and thought it would be helpful to any newcomer who was questioning whether their thoughts are appropriate or not to post... I like the idea of working on a document for Future Culture list, it might take awhile, but it would be a way of hearing everyones voice, revising, and the satisfaction of having worked on something to keep the list going in the direction that everyone wants it to. My $2000 (including interest) Article: 10936 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "Gregory H. Ritter" Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: Future Culture Constitution Date: 21 Sep 1994 03:09:36 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 91 Message-ID: <35o14g$auh@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 19:08:28 EDT Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.BITNET@VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: ; from "Brian Carroll" at Sep 19, 94 8:08 am Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..951:21.08.94.01.09.27"@uib.no> > > I am curious if other lists have moderated themselves by use of an > online constitution, so that general topics are agreed upon, and the > focus does not drift from where it is wanted. Other lists do have guidelines for posting (the WRITERS list comes to mind), but I don't know of any that have a constitution per se. A constitution here strikes me as a kind of bad idea, frankly, simply because (IMO) the best thing about FC is that the discussions aren't limited but still manage to usually be lively and provacative. Besides, all the libertario-anarchic types on the list would go nuts............just teasing! :) Who is going to decided "where the focus is wanted"? I think if anything has been proved about FC in the last year, it's that FC is a diverse group of people who have different ideas about what FC is and, perhaps, it is this diversity (of people and of opinion) that keeps FC going when other, more homogenous groups actually cease to exist. > > Besides a declaration of what Future Culture wants to be, it would be > interesting to know what others consider Future Culture since so many > new people are on this list. What about the submission of general > categories that would be compiled with respect to the "subject" of an > e-mail message... > > Let's say there are categories SCIENCE > PEOPLE > CULTURE > TECHNOLOGY > LANGUAGE > NETWORKS > or whatever, > and that if I were to post an article like f.s. on the phone companies > the subject would read something like- > > Networks: Phone Companies and the E-Highway No, I don't think that would work at all. Please explain to me what belongs in the LANGUAGE category but not in the CULTURE category? What's the difference between SCIENCE and TECHNOLOGY? I realize that your above list is just a rough draft, probably off the top of your head, but the things that get discussed on FC tend to be extremely cross-disciplinary. Does a discussion of RL ontology vs. VR ontology belong in CULTURE, or PHILOSOPHY, or TECHNOLOGY, or LANGUAGE? etc. etc. That might work pretty well on rec.cooking (RECIPE:Mincemeat Soup, REQUEST: Falafel Pie, VEGETARIAN: Noodle-burger, etc.), but the categories here on FC are not very conducive to reductive definitions. > > Maybe not, I just like the idea of a discussion of what Future Culture > is, because when I post I feel mighty fine about my understanding of it, > but my thinking may not be understood as relevant to others, > > Any ideas? too involved and unnecessary? Just a suggestion, and thought > it would be helpful to any newcomer who was questioning whether their > thoughts are appropriate or not to post... I know someone recently posted Andy Hawks' bubble-thingie, but did they post the entire FC Manifesto? The bubble-thingie is just the first part of the FC Manifesto, a 600+ line, 2 part document authored by Andy Hawks (I think), the post-bubble part of which goes on to describe various "cultures" that make up present & future culture--things like cyberculture, street culture, etc. etc. I have the FC Manifesto archived. If this has not been posted in its entirety recently, somebody let me know and I'll post it again. I don't think it is the basis for a Future Culture Constitution, but it certainly is some good food for thought when trying to find topics to discuss about culture in general. Greg Ritter eng3ghr@hibbs.vcu.edu Article: 10937 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Brian Carroll Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: Future Culture Constitution Date: 21 Sep 1994 04:55:54 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 12 Message-ID: <35o7bq$c8u@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 18:41:54 CST Comments: To: FUTUREC@UAFSYSB.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..584:21.08.94.02.55.42"@uib.no> It may be the coffee, Mr Ritter, but when I am in "viewer" mode, your reply's name and subject say the following: Peter Pflaum Ecological Crisis in Central Africa Pretty bizarre. This happened yesterday with another post and another name. These software bugs are weirder than I thought. You made good points and I agree with your conclusion. I probably wrote it because it was Monday Morning, schools starting, and there are only 6-10 futurec messages a day. Article: 10940 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!nac.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "J. Ted Liefeld" Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: Introductions Date: 21 Sep 1994 09:34:17 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 35 Message-ID: <35onlp$ib6@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 08:47:10 -0400 Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.bitnet@vm42.cso.uiuc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..011:21.08.94.07.11.09"@uib.no> I wasn't going to write an introduction when this thread started; I thought it was a bit narcissistic. After all eveyone likes to talk about themselves more than anything else. Guess this just prooves I'm as Human as anyone... I've been lurking here for 10-11 months more or less. I can't remember exactly when I started. I am originally from a city with the poetic name of Guelph, about an hour west of Toronto (yup, another canuck on FC). I went to the University of Western Ontario for a degree in mechanical engineering. This was significant in that it ordered my thinking into very rigid patterns. When I graduated I spent 3 months travelling around Africa. This sort of loosened those patterns up a bit. When I returned I moved to Boston to get a M.S. in Aero from MIT. This loosened up my thinking a whole lot. Its taken a few years to shake off the effects of the rigid mentatlity I adopted at UWO, but it isn't impossible. Nowadays I am a programmer at a scientific software company. I'm 26 moving rapidly towards 27 and my only publication has been a couple of photographs and a band review in a local entertainment rag. I am in love with a woman I met in Boston and we'll be married Nov 12 (getting closer by the second). My other love is my dog, Elvis. He is 3 1/2 months old, and getting bigger by the day. I love reading, almost anything except for generic pulp which I save for when I don't need a challenge. I don't let myself read 19th century russian authors anymore as they make me too depressed. For my adrenaline fix I have a motorcycle (for sale btw) and an obsession with downhill skiing. Ted wearing: silver hoop in my left ear, hair in a pony tail, slate blue t-shirt and black jeans. Token company T-shirt underneath. listening to: NPR, NIN, Smashing Pumpkins, Lloyd Cole, Lowest of the Low. wondering: what Elvis is thinking. Article: 10948 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Videoshamen Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: Future Culture Constitution Date: 21 Sep 1994 12:20:49 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 37 Message-ID: <35p1e1$qv2@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 23:11:26 -0400 Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.bitnet@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409200148.VAA06323@cais.cais.com> from "Brian Carroll" at Sep 19, 94 08:08:34 am Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..803:21.08.94.10.20.02"@uib.no> 'Brian Carroll' made it known. > I am curious if other lists have moderated themselves by use of an > online constitution, so that general topics are agreed upon, and the > focus does not drift from where it is wanted. ACK! No! Sorry, this is not a flame but if that happens I would de-sub immediately. We don't need a list of approved topics that you can only discuss on the list, we just need to share a common interest of ideas to talk about. If the topics start to drift, well that's what happens in digital communities. If the topics drift and cause a flame war, well that's the price you pay for being in an unmoderated forum. > Any ideas? too involved and unnecessary? Just a suggestion, and thought > it would be helpful to any newcomer who was questioning whether their > thoughts are appropriate or not to post... Yes, plus I suspect that the crowd around these parts are a bit to libertarian and anarchistic to go for that (I'm not ascribing a political view on the list, just making an observation) > I like the idea of working on a document for Future Culture list, > it might take awhile, but it would be a way of hearing everyones voice, > revising, and the satisfaction of having worked on something to keep the > list going in the direction that everyone wants it to. That on the other hand isn't a bad idea. There have been many documents that have been floating around the FC orbit (the FAQ, the Cyberpoets Guide, etc...) you could contact the maintainer of the document to see if they need help, or you could simply start your own. It doesn't have to be a constitution, just a starting point. _____________________________________________________________________________ Videoshamen It's not the buddha, taylor@cais.com It's the tv set. ____________________________________________________________________________ Article: 10955 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Independent Account 637 Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: yet another introduction Date: 21 Sep 1994 18:05:29 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 34 Message-ID: <35plk9$i3t@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 14:19:46 -0400 Comments: To: Future Culture Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..612:21.08.94.16.05.07"@uib.no> how appropriate; the main theme of the fourth movement of Beethoven's 9th emerged AT THE EXACT MOMENT I started this message (is it portentious or is it Memorex?...)-anyways, I've been on this list for 'bout a year, though at a different address (Tallahassee Freenet)-so far, my favorite experience in college has been (besides the prodigeous availability of mind-bending substances...) access to a REAL Net connection, rather than some watered-down tripe pawned of as "the 'Net" by supposedly well-minded individuals afraid that, with REAL access, we might see what's behind their curtain of control (re. nothing)- it never ceases to amaze me that people (myself included...) that will, in all likelyhood, never meet each other in person can have intense intellectual &/or emotional experiences through this medium-as with any medium, of course, the 'Net can get tedious (hell, I avoided it like DOS for most of the summer-for no good reason, naturally)-it's at moments like this that we need to look at the Net through the eyes of a neophyte (less derogatory than "newbie") as a vast compendium of knowledge & experiences-vast & overwhelming, yet holding us with the same grasp of fascination that any frontier presents to its settlers-while some of a more pessemistic nature may say that the Net as a frontier is gone, and with good reason, it must be remembered that, unlike other frontiers (the American West, the ocean floors, space, etc.,) the only limits are those of human ingenuity-FC, in & of itself, is a testament to that ingenuity, and as long as there are those of us interested in keeping at least some (if not all) of the Net from being "Disney-ized," FC will always have a raison d'etre (sorry, I don't have the French ASCII set)- BTW my name's Tom Amundrud-I'm 18 & a freshman at the Univ. of Central Florida in Orlando, 'though I'm originally from St. Petersburg ("where America goes to die")-my interests (besides the obvious) include; classical & "underground" music, esoteric writings in most all fields (an exacting list will come as soon as I figure out what the hell these are in the first place...,) & basically making the world a more .....interesting place Tom aka. Bill Lee aka. Ricardo aka. tomau Article: 10958 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "a.h.s. boy" Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: introspuduction Date: 21 Sep 1994 18:19:55 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 93 Message-ID: <35pmfb$imo@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 12:27:43 -0500 Comments: To: Future Culture To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..591:21.08.94.16.19.40"@uib.no> My turn (hey, this is almost as fun as the PFAQ bug we all caught a while back). I'm spud. I have many formal names (real name, pen name, conversational names), depending on where I'm using them; it gets confusing, but if you're yelling to me across the room, call me spud. I'm 27 and sometimes that feels old but then I see people acting like idiots at 21, so I'm glad I'm not there anymore. Then I see people acting like idiots at 40, so I figger I'll just not worry about it. 27 is a fine age, even if I wish I'd accomplished more things earlier. I live in Baltimore, which isn't much as far as cities go. I grew up in Chicago and went to school at Indiana University. I have a degree in Philosophy and Political Science, minor in French. Started trying to go to graduate school, but I got happily sidetracked and decided to forego it and keep educating myself. I never felt like I learned much _from_ school, though I appreciated having the time cordoned off to work. That, I miss. I work 9 to 5 doing digital prepress, and do freelance graphic design for a couple of record labels, a small literary press, and assorted community groups. My roommate and I are struggling to find the time and resources to start publishing a journal of social criticism and politics, but it keeps evading us. One day, soon. In the meantime I'm constantly busier than I have ever been in my life. I'm subscribed to 13 or 14 mailing lists, from graphic design to to WSD-l (music) to AppleScript; I can barely keep up. I have a compulsive and dangerous _need_ for the information, but it doesn't allow me the time to write that I'd like. If I don't post here often, it's only because I lack the time. FC is, like many others, my net.home. I've been on the list for several years, since soon after its inception. I don't even remember how I got here. I got into MOOs when FC moved into MediaMOO and built the great (and now quiet) FC Hall there. I spend most of my time on Lambda now, where I met Fran (katiemur), fell in love, and at least now I have something tangible to show for the time I've spent there. O so 90s, ain't it? My WWW page is available at http://www.digex.net/~spud but it's been neglected. I wish more than anything that I had more time; I wish that I had more time to write to Marius, with whom I feel like I should be closer (*wave*) since we share half a dozen lists and a profession; I wish I knew bookish better, for some unknown reasons that compell me. I wish I could participate in more of the brilliant OTIS Panic! sessions (interactive, collaborative photo manipulating via the Net). I want to write more poetry, want to read more, want to finish a long-standing paper on Sartre's conception of the subject in comparison with various post-structuralist interpretations, want to be in Montreal, want someone to pay me for sitting in front of the computer doing what _I_ want to do. I read almost no fiction, though I enjoy it when I do. I read lots of technical manuals, though it's not fascinating. I read lots of philosophy when I can, mostly on the philosophy of the subject. I try to avoid post-modern literary criticism, which sucked me in for a good long while, because I consider it fine criticism but terrible philosophy. I recently gave up on _Imagologies_, which struck me as banal and hoplessly pomo without much contribution to understanding. I'm slowly working on translating the poetry of Jacques Prevert from French, because no one's seen fit to do much of it. I adore music, and can't live without it for long, as if I need a soundtrack to accompany the film of my life. I grew up as a 77 era punk rock kid (a few years late), then got into industrial music (Test Dept., SPK, Einsturzende Neubauten) in its second generation. I can no longer classify what my tastes are; I'm not particularly interested in current musical "genres" (trance, industrial dance stuff, grunge/alternative college rock). I'm listening to Edith Piaf as I write this; Big Black may be on next. I smoke, I've been a vegetarian (lacto-ovo) for 12 years, I consider myself politically anarchist (communitarian/syndicalist variety). I have a cat named Musta Kissa, who is very fat but I love dearly. I'm very regimented about what coffee shops and bars I go to, and love doing it. I think people should tip 20% minimum; you'd be amazed at where it will get you. I like cleaning the collected lint from dryers, don't ask me why. I don't eat much, and coffee keeps me going. I can't seem to go to sleep before 2, no matter how hard I try. I don't dream much, or don't remember it unless I oversleep. One of the reasons that I don't post very often is that I can't stop once I start, and it takes a long time. Case in point. I'll shut up now. And, as always, I love you all. Thanks. spud. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ a.h.s. boy ---------------------- manifesto overlord, dada typographics --------------------------------- spud on MediaMOO, Lambda MOO, PMC-MOO spud@access.digex.net ----------- WWW page: http://www.digex.net/~spud mangez du chocolat / lavez votre cerveau / dada / dada / buvez de l'eau Article: 10960 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Frances Sendbuehler Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: Introductions Date: 21 Sep 1994 18:21:39 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 57 Message-ID: <35pmij$ip7@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 20:17:48 -0400 To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..727:21.08.94.16.21.28"@uib.no> My apologies if this goes through twice -- I originally sent it off about two days ago. Hey all -- Sometimes known as Sendbuehler Frances, sendbuef@..., Fran, and lots of other things, I live in Montreal, Quebec, (Canada, for the moment, if any of you care about the separatist stuff going around for the last thirty years and actually think that it might happen). The very noisy, hip, beautiful, odd street on which I live is near the mountain in the centre of the city, in a neighbourhood known both as The Plateau and Arrondissement Plateau Mont-Royal. I sometimes commute (by bus as there's no point in owning a car here) to the other side of the mountain in order to fulfill certain educational and employment obligations at the Universite de Montreal. Otherwise, I work where I live, am food-thang to my two cats, slave to my thesis and sometimes-cranky Mac. I'm 34, a master's student (in January, read Ph.D student), tallish for around here, with enough long reddish hair for two people (easy), wear glasses at the computer but rarely otherwise. I went back to school after working as a slave in the corporate and governmental worlds for seven years, delighted to have left those things in the dust when I departed Ottawa for good. I write (both academic things and fiction) and teach, and live a studenty-kind of life, this being a very social kind of place ... we make up for a lack of decent radio and go hear things live instead, and sometimes spend our days finding out about new things, sometimes working. What's tv good for, other than for having an excuse to go down to La Boite Noire to rent a good film? I was born here, and have sometimes lived in Montreal, sometimes in Other Places, namely, Ottawa and Vancouver. I am always thrilled to be back here, and have finally learned my lesson about that. I shall try to not leave "permanently" again, unless I find a place that is as much home as here is. Summers were once spent at a lake in the Laurentians; this forms a small part of my soul and dream time, and I go back there once in a while to refresh those memories. Another small part is given a thrill and substance by where I live, with so many generations of collective memory residing in this city. Yet another part is inspired and given fuel by being in love,both with what I do and with a real person who still lives far away. He is my real/cyber cyber/real love of my life, to whom you have had an oblique introduction, and with whom I hang around on MOOs. He intro'd me to FC, and I've been here for only a few months; I'm liking this community very much, in spite of the change it's going through right now. Fran still wearing spider earrings, a star on a cord about my neck, and four hoop earrings, three rings, six bracelets of silver and copper and brass. usually wearing something black but right now it's a very un-grunge-plaid robe. Last night heard Stereolab live, otherwise listen to Mekons, MC Solaar, Pretenders, Edith Piaf, and lots of other stuff. reading Genette, Eco, and Foucault for school, the Illuminatus! Trilogy for fun. Being grossed out by the smell of roofing tar. Article: 10970 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Judy Engelsberg Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: the oft-reported death of Date: 21 Sep 1994 20:13:04 +0200 Organization: Pics OnLine MultiUser System - 609-753-2540 Lines: 50 Message-ID: <35pt3g$mt5@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Judy Engelsberg NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 23:47:00 -0500 Comments: To: FUTUREC@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..727:21.08.94.18.12.54"@uib.no> In a message dated 09-19-94 MIKE ACAR wrote: > I find there's nothing interesting on TV, other than the odd cartoon. I've only been reading FC for about a month, and I plan on lurking for quite some time. I guess I'm not a particularly good lurker though, and Mike's typical tv put-down begs a response. My tv-watching has dropped by about 2/ 3's (she's a newbie...) or more in the past month, but there are some things that are must-see. One of those things is happening now, started Sunday (9/ 18) anw will continue into next week. Then it will get repeated, no doubt. This is BASEBALL (the magic words, when manipulated by the digital wizard, Ken Burns). You don't have to like baseball. I very rarely watch a game. I was one-upped by someone on public radio. She said you don't even have to like _television_ to watch Baseball. You just have to like quality. I am a firm quality-liker. In fact, one of the highest compliments for my profession, software quality assurance was given me - I'm persnickety. That's how I got involved with Macintosh, and that's why I'll shut down this machine at 8 pm tonight. It's good every once and awhile to share the common experience of television. Don't call the work of Ken Burns television, ok? Some people say that one of his last documentaries, the Civil War was the best documentary ever created in the history of motion pictures. You could call him a historian, but he says that you can't understand the present without understanding the past. I would venture to say that if you can understand the present, you can presage the future. So I guess you can also see that I'm not much of a conformist. (She got a Mac in 1985, and now she even admits that she watches some television!) Great way to make a good impression on this group, huh? By the way, I am experimenting with offline message readers and several on the Mac put up the face of the person who wrote the message and the person whom the message is to. I can't think of a newsgroup that would be more suited for than Future Culture. Are there any programs that do that for the PC or UNIX? Wouldn't it be nice to "see" everyone when you read their posts? OK, I shouldda lurked. Go flame me now if you want! ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Judy.Engelsberg@pics.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++ -> Alice4Mac 2.4.4 E QWK Eval:26Aug94 Origin: Alice strikes back @ ---- +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pics OnLine MultiUser System 609/753-2540 HST 609/753-2605 (V32bis) | | Massive File Collection - Over 45,000 Files OnLine - 250 Newsgroups | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Article: 10975 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: CaZ Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Me... Date: 21 Sep 1994 21:14:59 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 33 Message-ID: <35q0nj$ph6@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 14:06:21 -0400 Comments: To: futurec%uafsysb.bitnet@vtbit.cc.vt.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..710:21.08.94.19.14.44"@uib.no> Gee, this introduction thing has definately brought us lurkers out!! :) I've been reading what everyone has been saying about themselves and I'm very impressed. It appears as if we have, not only very well educated and intelligent people on this list, but also dedicated and active individuals that have goals and are pursuing them - I applaud all of you! Ok, Here goes.. I'm a 22 year old college student, and programmer. I am currently working for a very large government contractor and attending part-time classes. I attended full-time college straight out of high-school and, if I'd been ready for it, would now have my degree. Instead I had a very common problem, a whole new world had been opened up to me, both in the individuals I interacted with and the _choices_ available to me. I started college with the major of CS because my family said I was good at it (laf). During my 4 semester full-time student career I had the following majors: CS, Journalism, Political Science, Journalism/Poli Sci double major, and Psychology. My parents were less than pleased as I'm sure you can imagine. (sorry, didn't mean to bore you) Since then I've been putting myself through school and working full-time. I miss the easy full-time student days but I have a lot more pride in my school accomplishments since I've started laying down the big bucks for the opportunity. ACK! Sorry about that, got rambling... I'd say my two most memorable experience I've had were : a 16 day course I took with Outward Bound when I was in high school. 5 months crewing on a schooner built in 1871 off the Maine coast. Scott wearing: work-clothes (GAG) thinking: hmm, is it time for me to stop lurking here? listening: to my ice cubes melting. just finished reading: _A Rage for Revenge_ by David Gerrold Article: 10986 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Ryan Scott Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC (fwd) Date: 21 Sep 1994 22:22:59 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 46 Message-ID: <35q4n3$shp@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 20:23:56 -0400 Comments: To: Future Culture To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409170901.FAA61477@inca.gate.net> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..234:21.08.94.20.22.30"@uib.no> On Thu, 15 Sep 1994, Evan Kirchhoff wrote: > Ryan Scott says: > > On Mon, 12 Sep 1994, Alan Sondheim wrote: > > > > Lots of newbies, sure, but I think a lot of people are using it > > productively. OK, so we got the IRC addicts proud to be wasting their > > lives 12 hours a day (almost as bad as tv)... > > (What is it with this knee-jerk anti-TV thing all over the Net? I used to > be proud of how I could, say, unplug the TV for a moment because I needed > the outlet, and then not notice for days that I hadn't plugged the TV back > in again. But in the last year or so, I decided that this was an > incredibly pompous attitude and started making the effort to watch TV > again. Now I like TV, and I think the whole TV-is-evil/Neil-Postman thing > is a late-80s intellectual fad that should have run its course some time > ago. What is _uniquely_ wrong with TV?) I'm sorry but I consider TV watching a complete (nearly 100%) waste of human potential. It is the most pervasive drug in this culture and its needs to be recognized as what it is. It is used, IMHO, to create a culture based on unrealistic unattainable expectations. I believe very strongly that TV, in its current form (on US tv's at any rate) is a Very Bad Thing. There's a whole world out there.. heres something I find very scary and laughable at the same time - Commercial for cable - "Explore Life, Experience Cable!" the two are mutually exclusive IMHO Just my 2 cents. I don't want to start a war over tv, its not worth it 8^) > people I know are trying to sign up...in fact, the only people I can think > of offhand who aren't trying to get online are the ones that don't own > computers at all. Even my mom wants to get on and she's willing to buy a computer for it :-) ______________________________________________________________________________ Ryan Scott - rscott@gate.net CyberGate Support Manager PLAYFIELD! AMOS Resources 1 800 NET GATE http://www.gate.net/amos/play/ Internet Connections Article: 10996 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Philippa E Holloway Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: wow.... Date: 22 Sep 1994 00:25:34 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 25 Message-ID: <35qbsu$2uu@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 08:26:53 -0400 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..255:21.08.94.22.24.58"@uib.no> Its 8:20 a.m. The computer labs with mosaic just opened for the semester, and I had 15 min before class, so I thought I'd dash over and start to figure out how to use mosaic. I've never used this software before I'd saved a list of places to try to connect to, mostly gotten from fc, but I didnt think Id be able to figure out how to use this software in 15 min. Let alone connect anwhere. But I just tried it. Copied marius's address for Michael's page, pasted it into the "load url window" (just a guess). And pop. Poof. Wow. There's a picture of Michael. I've been in the lab <10 minutes. I'm still sweaty from biking up here. Its the first day of class in the first quarter of my doctoral program. Its the first day I'm ta'ing and Im about to meet the class Im gonna grade for and I've got tears in my eyes and my mind is BLOWN from seeing this picture. Gotta run. Wow. Pip Article: 11001 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Siegfried Steurer Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Yet another boring introduction ... Date: 22 Sep 1994 01:04:26 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 26 Message-ID: <35qe5q$3q7@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 16:09:52 MEZ Comments: To: FUTUREC To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..867:21.08.94.23.04.15"@uib.no> Hi all, 23 years, male, living in Vienna (all the time), currently working on a dissertation on VR and ethics (effects/society). Studying media and politics here. Big fan of cynism, sarcastic humor etc.. Straight atheist (see next post). Like good (italian, chinese, austrian) food (and lots of it), will marry bout next year. Listen to jazz & rap (best: fusions), read De Sade, VR-stuff and King (and ...). Playing tennis, badminton; collecting aphorisms and quotes (yes, still). But the best is still discussing politial and philosophical issues with friends and beer ... ********************************************************************** * Siegfried Steurer | * * Inet: a6301gcx@vm.univie.ac.at | There is no justice - * * Adr.: Schellenseegasse 27/38 | there's only DEATH. * * A-1230 Vienna/Austria | * * No kangaroos available :-) | Terry Pratchett * * Tel.: +43-1-693655 | * ********************************************************************** Article: 11002 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "Gregory H. Ritter" Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC (fwd) Date: 22 Sep 1994 01:07:00 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 29 Message-ID: <35qeak$3rb@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 10:29:33 EDT Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.BITNET@VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: ; from "Ryan Scott" at Sep 20, 94 8:23 pm Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..029:21.08.94.23.06.34"@uib.no> > > I'm sorry but I consider TV watching a complete (nearly 100%) waste of human > potential. It is the most pervasive drug in this culture and its needs > to be recognized as what it is. It is used, IMHO, to create a culture > based on unrealistic unattainable expectations. I believe very strongly > that TV, in its current form (on US tv's at any rate) is a Very Bad Thing. I have to take exception with your terminology. TV itself (as someone else said) is just a medium. Yes, it's is not an interactive medium, but then neither is a book and I don't hear people crying out "Reading a book is a complete waste of human potential!" What you are objecting to is not TV itself, but *TV programming*. I find nothing inherently wrong with the medium itself, just like there is nothing inherently wrong with a book. Though, you might make a case for, say, Harlequin Romances being a waste of human potential--but that is a fault of "book programming" not of writing itself. Likewise the pap on TV is not the fault of the medium of TV, but the fault of the people who program the medium. Greg Ritter eng3ghr@hibbs.vcu.edu Article: 11014 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "Gregory H. Ritter" Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: the oft-reported death of FC Date: 22 Sep 1994 06:16:09 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 25 Message-ID: <35r0e9$9vk@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 15:13:09 EDT Comments: To: FUTUREC%UAFSYSB.BITNET@VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: ; from "Evan Kirchhoff" at Sep 21, 94 6:07 am Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..329:22.08.94.04.15.29"@uib.no> Evan Kirchhoff (two h's) recently said: > > and most of all I resent > > being viewed as a target market. > > I like it. It means that people someplace are actively trying to figure > out how to make stuff that I might want. I resent being ignored as a > target market. LOL! Hallelujah! Finally someone who thinks like I do! Goddammit, I want Nike to market a shoe JUST FOR *ME*! I want to turn on Ted Turner's Superstation and see an advertisement for the SuperValue McGregMeal--2 Quarterpounders w/ Cheese, a bag of salt-and-vinegar potato chips and a pink lemonade Snapple! Pepsi for the Greg Generation! Greg's the Real Thing! Just do Greg! Greg Ritter, market unto himself. eng3ghr@hibbs.vcu.edu Article: 11018 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Hans Deseure Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Intro -- future/foreign culture Date: 22 Sep 1994 09:11:32 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 34 Message-ID: <35ran4$do1@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 21:42:52 CST Comments: To: FUTUREC@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..520:22.08.94.07.11.08"@uib.no> Knock, knock. Hi there. Introductions, he ? I'm not really fond of doing them, but I guess it's not fair to keep lurking out here without saying hello. Especially with this funeral-mood some of you seem to be stuck in. I am Hans - very "normal guy", not even being paid by the government. Homebase is in Belgium, but my "virtual office" often ends up in hotelrooms, now Tokyo. Background economics, current field logistics. Catholic, regardless of the current pope. Addicted to computers, and a couple months now surfing the net. Main disappointment sofar is failing to find a decent recipe for bubble-blowing liquid to make a really BIG bubble for my daughter. The bubbletext was a nice weirdly timed association, but I'm looking for the -real- thing. I'm currently going through the umpteenth culture shock of trying to understand-connect to the Japanese way of thinking. Difficult, difficult... . Ever discussed future culture in the light of current culture changes ? Is a change in culture, because of evolving time, in any way comparable to the experiences you get by getting out of a plane on the other side of the planet and trying to achieve things together with the locals ? Internet feels a lot less alien to me than the homegrown variety of bio-neural nets here... . Oops, deviating. Well, the laptop is dying anyway. Hey, I just remember that the mood at funerals usually becomes a lot better towards the end, so keep hope ! Hans. Wearing : the blanket. Listening : construction work at kokkaigijidomae subway station. Article: 11026 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Bill Hutten Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: me Date: 22 Sep 1994 09:50:15 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 35 Message-ID: <35rcvn$f80@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 13:57:24 -0300 To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..166:22.08.94.07.49.52"@uib.no> ok, introductions: Name: Bill Hutten, aged 30. I've been a programmer for almost 10 years (right after getting a BA in political theory from Acadia University in Wolfville, NS). I'm currently programming on a contract basis for various companies, and working on an MA in Urban Planning. I was born and raised on a farm in Nova Scotia, and hope to eventually be able to afford to buy a small farm myself and only come into the city for books and the occasional entertainment. I've worked as a cabinetmaker, and still do wood and metal-working when I have the time (and access to a shop). I read a lot, mostly history (19th century central europe), philosophy (medieval), theology, and politics. Some fiction, recently I just re-read Martin Amis' _Time's Arrow_ for about the 10th time... I don't post much anymore, mostly because I've developed serious problems with RSI which make it painful for me to type. I'm 5'11", very short blond hair, glasses, extremely thin (I'm up to 133lbs, which is the heaviest I've ever been. Ask me about eating disorders...... :) ) I'm currently single. People often describe me as intense. I tend to fluctuate wildly between depression and idiotic happiness. - bill | Bill Hutten - bhutten@fox.nstn.ns.ca | 6411 Cloverdale Rd. Halifax, NS Canada B3L 2N6 (902) 453 2482 | "Hard to love, when you're bracing for impact." - Martin Amis Article: 11028 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Joshua Matthew Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: another boring introduction.... Date: 22 Sep 1994 10:05:11 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 21 Message-ID: <35rdrn$g08@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 12:26:57 LCL To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..166:22.08.94.08.04.55"@uib.no> Well.... I've been forced to lurk again because of school work, (and a turned off phone.. :) but now that my phone is back in action, so am I. I think I'm the young'n no the list, or atleast one of them. I'm a measly 20... I've been on this list for around 14 months or so. However, I didn't become very vocal untill this past summer. Okay, now the dumb stuff that no one wants to hear... I'm a junior at Syracuse University whose major course of study is film. I also do extensive work in video, computer graphics and multimedia. I am minoring in philosophy and I do a lot... way too much that is... of writing. I write mostly plays and short stories.. and of course, screenplays. hmm.. well.. I am also a musician. I play guitar for a hardcore band called Shenoem. (who will soon be coming to a town near you.. ) The technical term for the kind of music we play is "technical melodic hardcore" or "emo". Call it whatever you want.... Well.. that's enough of that..... I applaud anyone who actually read through this whole boring post.... jmd Article: 11045 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Gudni Karl Hardarson Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Introduction..... Date: 22 Sep 1994 12:18:59 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 62 Message-ID: <35rlmj$n8v@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 01:31:09 +0000 Comments: To: futurec@uafsysb.uark.edu To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..060:22.08.94.10.18.52"@uib.no> Who am I? That question many times comes up to my mind. As of what I am sure of, I am 40 years old and I work as a SECURITY GUARD in a Bank in Reykjavik Iceland. When 1 1/2 years old I got polio sickness. Happily my left leg was the only bodypart affected. I was 3 times surged, first in 1991, then '92 and '93. I was all together 39 weeks in gipsum. Now today I only limb a little. I took an exam in reasoning when I was 23 years old and got 55 right answers out of 60 questions. In each question was given 12 possible answers were only one was correct. I finished high-school and took one extra year in commerce after that. In 1987 and 1988 I took three more courses in commerse at an evening-school. Since I began working when 13 years of age I have been in more than 22 different jobs mainly for the experience. I live for knowledge and have been learning for myself at home. I am intrested in philosophy, ideology, ethics, social activities, religon ideas, astronomy, space travel and most informations on life. Of animals I like dogs and horses most. I like traveling and have come to 12 Countries in Europe and one in Africa. My hobbies are: Playing chess as so many icelanders are good at (although I am not so extremly good at it :-( I read many books. I like to be in front of my Computer which is Eltech 486 DX2/66 VL Extrn.mem 256 K and Internal Ram 8mb, 212mb hard disk, double speed CD Rom Disk and Encarta. I own a 14.400b modem and wery often navigate around the World on the Internet. I am connected from the Icelandic Educational Network wich is very cheep using (about 25 USD for each month without additional cash). It is allowed for the generic public to subscribe to this Networkl. I like bycicling. I travel each year to at least one of Icelandic beutiful places in the country. I like living here in Iceland as living here is healthy. In Iceland there is nearly no air pollution and the country side is clean and healthy, in fact one of the cleaniest Country in the whole World. We Icelanders very often talk about how beutiful here is. We are proud of our old traditional sagas. I do not like the political system here and we have our problems like every other Countries in the whole World. I am single and still have youngish outlook. I am of course handsome:-) and have dark brown hair (plenty of it). My height is about 1.81 meters and am not fat in any way. I have a little bit bodily figure. I love most music but mostly listen to Jazz and old pop groups like: Mannfred Mann Earth Band, ELP and more. I too listen to Carl Santana, Vangelis, Jean Michel Jarre, Messoforte and more. I read a lot of science fiction books. My most favorable writers are: Jack Chalker for his person's characters and good adventure story telling, Orson Scott Card for his ethical points of view and ability to create exiting stories just out of casual and common living (very intresting story is XENOCIDE for example). Timothy Zahn for easy reading adventure stories, Dan Simmons (the two HYBERION stories, these books every science fiction fans must read), and at last Stephen R. Donaldson for his master of storyteller. That is me. Have a nice and happy day, Gudni Karl Hardarson Article: 11074 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Paula Davidson Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: Introduction..... Date: 23 Sep 1994 04:25:26 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 47 Message-ID: <35team$1ap@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 14:28:23 -0400 Comments: To: Gudni Karl Hardarson Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409221456.KAA11008@mercury.interpath.net> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..522:23.08.94.02.25.12"@uib.no> Hi folks, I am a mesoelectronic hunter/gatherer. Just tamed enough to appreciate and learn from your marvelous posts and discussions, but too savage to offer you any intellectual sustenance. Mostly I <<>>. I am pretty new on the net, 6 months old, but have been cruising BBSs and searching online databases like Dialog for over 10 years. My net.scene is the hunt. Readers who have never touched a wire come to me and want know what is available online. Sometimes they just want to know what online is, what it looks like. I hunt for Zapatistas and PGP, meditative dance and vegetarian recipes. Sometimes I pass email to Bulgaria and Nicaragua. I like running moo gophers. FutureCulture and CyberMind are lists I consider to be for ,me, rather then the readers that come here. You are all stories that come to me throughout the day and keep me thinking about better things than how to get a postscript file to print out on a dot matrix printer. I am learning the net is more than a matrix of data woven out of ascii. You folks teach me every day. Thank you. One thing I have discovered is there is no net culture. Rather the net is filled with cultures. The net is a crazy quilt. The librarians are velvet, thick and plush with endless variations and approaches to the answer. Newsgroups are wools: sometimes deep brillant colors, often unravelling. The people at the talkers are cotton prints with their myriads of moral and social codes. The moo folk are silk: all flash and dazzle. And the listservs are brocades: you can run your hand across the fabric of the discussions and feel the depth of the thoughts that go into the posts. The more you look at it, the more you see, change the light and you change the perspective. Everybody brings their little scrap online and slowly we're being pieced together. One day this crazy quilt will be covered with intricate embroidery that ties us all together. I am 40 years old, married 14 years to the light of my life. I live on a mountain in Western North Carolina. I'm reading Marianne Moore, Marge Piercy, Jack Gilbert and Alan Sondheim. Life is sweet. ================================================================ Paula Davidson T h e A l t e r n a t i v e R e a d i n g R o o m an unconventional library <> free & open to the public Wednesday - Saturday 11 - 9 40 Wall St. Asheville, NC 28801 USA (704) 252-2501 tarr@mercury.interpath.net ================================================================ Article: 11077 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: "L.M.Orchard" Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: wow.... Date: 23 Sep 1994 08:53:31 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 37 Message-ID: <35tu1b$4h1@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 15:29:18 -0400 Comments: To: Future Culture To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409212016.QAA00161@cps201.cps.cmich.edu> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..971:23.08.94.06.52.54"@uib.no> On Wed, 21 Sep 1994, Philippa E Holloway wrote: > But I just tried it. Copied marius's address for Michael's > page, pasted it into the "load url window" (just a guess). And pop. Poof. > Wow. There's a picture of Michael. Just after reading this, I ran Mosaic and jumped over to Marius' pages... (long time no see) > > I've been in the lab <10 minutes. I'm still sweaty from biking > up here. Its the first day of class in the first quarter of > my doctoral program. Its the first day I'm ta'ing and Im about > to meet the class Im gonna grade for and I've got tears in > my eyes and my mind is BLOWN from seeing this picture. I never imagined that Michael looked like that. I don't really know WHAT I thought he looked like, but it kinda hit me strangely. He really was beautiful, as I'd heard. reading some of the letters about him, I found tears in my eyes as well... > Gotta run. ditto. > > Wow. > ditto. > Pip > Dionnus Elektronn (aka Leslie Michael Orchard) "Don't sweat it, it's only ones and zeros." Article: 11079 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Rodion Raskolonikov Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Re: wow.... Date: 23 Sep 1994 09:18:23 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 37 Message-ID: <35tvfv$5pa@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 14:24:42 -0700 Comments: To: Future Culture To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409212157.OAA04351@post-office.nevada.edu> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..514:23.08.94.07.18.04"@uib.no> On Wed, 21 Sep 1994, Philippa E Holloway wrote: > But I just tried it. Copied marius's address for Michael's > page, pasted it into the "load url window" (just a guess). And pop. Poof. > Wow. There's a picture of Michael. > > I've been in the lab <10 minutes. I'm still sweaty from biking > up here. Its the first day of class in the first quarter of > my doctoral program. Its the first day I'm ta'ing and Im about > to meet the class Im gonna grade for and I've got tears in > my eyes and my mind is BLOWN from seeing this picture. > Pip Heh. I' also setting in one of the labs getting ready to go to class, showing a freind of mine the FC member's home pages... I remembered Marius mentioning Micheal's photo, so I thought I'd show my friend (who I recently subed to cybermind). It really shook me up... I still don't have the emotional ground to deal with it... Heh. I just kinda pointed him out and all of the sudden my eyes teared up, so I quickly changed the subject and went to another home page... I'm going to download the picture-- I don't know why, but... Oh god... I gota go to class and talk about fucking Derrida... Gotta get myself together... Glad you guys are here... * * * * Simulacrum, simulacrum, rah, rah, RAH! |o/ \o/ X X dionysis@nevada.edu |\ / \ (aka Troy Swain) Article: 11099 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Les Orchard Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Introductions, me PFAQ (sorta) Date: 24 Sep 1994 01:14:50 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 65 Message-ID: <35vnha$ico@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 12:43:41 -0400 Comments: To: Future Culture To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..861:23.08.94.23.14.34"@uib.no> Couldn't think of where to start with an introduction for myself, so I dug up a back issue of Kibble (or was it in the Cyberpoet's Guide?) and found myself the article on Erich's old PFAQ. (Personal FAQ) Well, here goes my own PFAQ, written on the fly, only loosely resembling anything coherent... :) Who am I? -- Hi, my name's Leslie Michael Orchard. Male, over 6' tall, 170 lbs (iff I'm not still losing weight), naturally thick black hair, brown/green/amber eyes, lean features. People tell me I'm a little handsome, but I don't know what they're talking about. Oh yeah, and I'll be 19 on 10/24/94. -- My racial origin is of the human lineage. My national origin is American. My cultural heritage is American. I won't pretend to claim membership in any 'official' racial group. I yam what I yam. Any ancestral line behind me is unknown, though I *would* like to research it and find out whether I have any Celtic blood, just for the purpose of exploring my archetypes. -- I'm currently a sophomore @ Central Michigan University pursuing a double major in Cognitive Psych and Cognitive Science, as well as a minor in computer science. I also write quite a bit of fiction and non-fiction essays-- none published, because I'm not quite sure I'm ready for that. :) -- I seem to be the most stable person I know. Not fixed and stagnant, but able to keep myself from capsizing when the waves come. Know thyself. I do. -- I don't know what 'macho' is, what it means, or what its good for. -- Music: At the moment, I'm listening to Kate Bush. I also like a good hard industrial beat from time to time, as well as some gothic darkness. Oh, and I have an 80's New Wave fetish. (i.e Front 242, Information Society, Depeche Mode, NiN, Christian Death, Joy Division, Siouxsie & the Banshees, Oingo Boingo, The Cure, XTC, and Jesus Jones. Oh, and I have 200 CD's. I like music, yes I do.) -- Books: Over the summer, I read Victor Hugo, Aldus Huxley, Anne Rice, Ayn Rand, Richard Dawkins, assorted Scandinavian folktales and fairy tales, some modern retellings of fairy tales, B.F. Skinner, a healthy helping of Neil Gaiman, quite a lot of Charles deLint, some Carl Jung, David Brin (on recommendation f/ FC), Ursula leGuin, and various other things I just inhaled. -- Pets: "Amazing Live Sea-Monkeys (R)." -- Drugs: Caffeine. That's all. No alcohol, nicotine, or bud. The caffeine, in large doses, takes the place of all the above. -- Clothes: (see Thrift Shop.) -- Food: Yes. -- Visual Media: (I'm staying out of the TV thread, but...) I haven't seriously watched television in 6 months, and am happy about it. I *do* however watch a handful of shows religiously. (Star Trek, Seinfeld, The Tick, Batman, Animaniacs, etal...) Movies, well they cost money and... -- Employment: none. :( -- Religion: Unlike my major, undecided. Dislike Christianity. Lean toward no religion (atheism). Things Druidic, Celtic, Wiccan, and Pagan seem neat, but I dunno if I'd really believe in that stuff. The Bahai's are really cool, tho. Any questions? Ask. Hopefully, I'll be delurking more often, once my schedule calms down... -- Dionnus Elektronn (aka Leslie Michael Orchard) "Don't sweat it, it's only ones and zeros." Article: 11116 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: CtG Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: Introductions, me PFAQ (sorta) Date: 24 Sep 1994 19:11:01 +0200 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 53 Message-ID: <361mj5$3vt@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 12:28:18 -0500 Comments: To: FUTUREC@UAFSYSB.bitnet To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC In-Reply-To: <199409240009.AA22965@csn.org> Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..055:24.08.94.17.10.53"@uib.no> Regarding: Introductions, me PFAQ (sorta) > handsome, but I don't know what they're talking about. Oh yeah, > and I'll be 19 on 10/24/94. Hm. 4 Days older than me. It's finally a weekend, and a pre-pfaq for me is a possibility. I'm 5'11", about 130 (on days after I've just eaten, and I'm wearing snow boots and a heavy coat), brown hair (short, by a strange twist of events and a misunderstanding of "just cut a little bit off"), and I have a broken digital watch. I live in a room on the top floor of an office building, just quit my job as a programmer in favor of a job building and installing computers (less pay, further commute, but better environment). I realized that I've been wearing wingtips to work every day for months now, and Monday I'm going to wear jeans, t-shirt, and sneakers! Wiw. Addicted to: Internet, of course. I want my own site, and am making plans for one now. My UUCP link (and personal account through the uni) just isn't cutting it. Yes, I want a T1 in my bedroom. I guess I've been here since the nyx days, several months before it switched to uark, at which point I lost it for 2 months. Then, by going back and looking around on #cyberpunk and #leri, I saw familiar faces (freeside) who led me back to the light... :) Religion VASTLY interests me. I want a global, object-oriented, flexible religion that would be fairly workable in a MOO environment if I only had the time. Serious religion in CyberSpace (not xtian, moslem, etc specifically) fascinates me, as does any serious religion anywhere. Heck, even non-serious religion. As a side note, and this isn't something I usually mention, I believe myself to be a Christian, based on the writings of the Christian Bible. But my religion isn't really what I wear on my sleeve when talking to people, because quite often, any religious preferences can be a big obstacle in trying to communicate intelligently. hehe. Maybe some of you know me as ChristJ, which was a nick I got from several places. First, on Standardized tests, my name (Christopher J Heschong) would get shortened to "Christ J Heshcong). Then, as an experiment in public reactions, I used it as a nick on IRC... The people who thought I was supposed to be some sort of bornagainbaptistpreacher gave me a hard time. The people who thought I was poking fun at xtianity thought it was pretty funny. Then of course, some people just didn't care. Overall, cyberspace has taught me (and everyone else here) /quite/ a bit about how society interacts. Jeez, it's like a complete, experimental model of reality to experiment on! WOW! Anyway, if I can ever be of service netwise, my current UUCP domain is @wiw.org, listservices are available, and hopefully soon so will FTP and WWW services. --- Chris Article: 11122 of fa.future-culture Path: nntp.uio.no!ifi.uio.no!internet-mailinglist From: Videoshamen Newsgroups: fa.future-culture Subject: that darn tall guy Date: 26 Sep 1994 03:56:46 +0100 Organization: Internet mailing list Lines: 80 Message-ID: <365d9e$8ld@ifi.uio.no> Reply-To: Future Culture NNTP-Posting-Host: ifi.uio.no Return-Path: Original-Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 22:54:28 -0400 Comments: To: future culture To: Multiple recipients of list FUTUREC Original-Message-ID: <"alfie.uib..882:26.08.94.02.56.35"@uib.no> Ok I've been putting this off for long enough, and I've done enough kibbitzing as to not be able to aviod it by lurking... Hello all, My name is Nick McDowell, I've been going by the nick Videoshamen (that's what I'm on MOOs and irc and such as) but I'm not really comfortable with that as I should be, but I've used it for too long to stop. I'm 6'7", growing a shaggy gotee, and am desprately looking for some clippers to shave off those protein strings that keep growing out of my scalp. I'm 23 (ooooh how discordian) and live the George Kastanza life (i.e. at home for all of you on the anti-tv side of the tread) in reston VA (the PLANNED community- inhale that nice middleclass air- ahhhhh) as I apply to various grad schools seeking my MFA. I graduated with a degree in theatre and am currently working as a webmaster and just last week my boss told me to learn linux. Life never ceases to amaze me with curves it leads you down. For example, I have an extensive coolection of business sites in my home page ( http://www.cais.com/wwwedit/nick/nickhome.html still under construction, I'm working on the lag.) and two months ago that is the last thing I ever thought I would considder important. Oh well. At first I postured myslef as an actor, then as a performance artist (real pretensious postering on my part) and now I've eschewed performance for computer animation, but I'll probably come full circle the next time I see a stage. I tend to do work on information theory, chaos theory, the media, and attempt to work the term non-linear into any descripiton of my work (see I did it again) To be quite honest I like doing work where I can zoom the mandelbrot set, or obssively color cycle it in the same damn pallet (part of the reason I want to go back to school) I think most people who do work with fractals, and especially with that set will make some pretension justification about "exploring the concept of dynamic systems, and the practice of self similarity in an environment where math and art becomes one..." when the truth is that they just really dig the preeeeeeety colors. Lord knows I do. What else should I say? I collect old tvs and store them in the vain hope that I will use them in some artistic contex. I have a girlfriend named anna. I almost got a cat the other day but didn't because of the aformentioned lifestyle I'm living. I just started drinking coffee. And I'm actually very shy and introverted (which is why I'm so loud and extroverted, you figgure it out). Oh I can't spell either as you may have guessed. Partly a result of medicine back when I was but a tot, and partly a general unwillingness to spellcheck mail postings that arnt official. If you send me mail on the subject I'll send you a very pretentious post about how dictionaries were an invention of the 18th century and we should have a fluid and evolving language, but secretly I'll be hurt and actually look up the offending word. Oh yeah, I tend to lurk and kibbitz here (and on leri) off and on. I'll usually desubb if I have a big project going, or if I get too depressed to deal with it (last desub happened when someone mentioned Andy, who I say as if I've talked with, opening up his fingers on IRC to remind himself that he was alive, that caused a bad feeback loop with my current state of mind and I had to leave.) Oh and someone please tell me where this originated from: Wearing: nothing (I keep my Mac+ next to my bed) but on weekends an oversized (even for me) blue and black flannel. During the week whatever I can get away with at work. Listening to: Lots and lots of Orb, laurie Anderson, Beastie Boys, and trying to reconstruct a collection from memory now that I no longer live with music nerds. Generally I favor electronics and intelligent sampling. Reading: Just finished a short story collection by Brin, working on _The_society_of_Mind_ by Marvinn Minsky, and all the other books that I bought at the "Green Valley" Book fair. Will one day finish _Godel_Escher_Bach_ by Douglas Hofsteader. Favorite punctuation mark: These things ()(()))((())() The original hypertext link. _____________________________________________________________________________ Videoshamen It's not the buddha, taylor@cais.com It's the tv set. ____________________________________________________________________________